The Official "What Should I Spend Money On?" Thread [Merged 10-6]

[boostforfun]

Once you start modifying the car, remember you are going to need a clutch shortly and nothing is more importand than controlling the air/fuel mixture.

All the cool turbos, injectors, and fancy stuff do no good without controlling the fuel.

Biggest mistake when I build my first DSM was no SAFC or fuel controller.

 

[dsm'sROCK]

gt35 kit

 

[webconnect]

]
No, it's nothing glamorous as a new turbo, but all the "go-fast" parts in the world don't make a car that sits in the driveway any faster.

HA Ha ha, ah ha ha ... ha...... sniffle sniffle cries

+1

 

[nyTalonTsi]

Get the thing running and keep it running and put the rest in a savings/investment account. That way money will grow..DSM's loses money every day.

Agreed.

 

[magna]

Spend 2, put the rest away for a rainy day.
DSMlink over AFC.

 

[boostforfun]

^ +1 on DSMlink over SAFC

I was just saying make sure you at LEAST have SOMETHING.

Too many people spend too much money on parts they cant utilize. This is why the upgrade path is such a good idea. I just move fuel controll a few steps up in the upgrade path.

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

gt35 kit

Those turbos are overrated and would easily surpass his 3000 limit.

 

[kenamond]

So I'm to the point in modding where I go more fuel. I need pump, injectors, DSMlink, and WBO2. I'm trying to spend ~500/month, so I get to decide the order. I also need info about which WBO2. So here goes.

I want a 52mm WBO2 gauge to fit in the A-pillar. I've heard it said that the AEM unit is not as good as others, so I'd like to hear y'all's recommendations/experiences.

I can get the WBO2 and pump first for under $500. I didn't spend my $500 this month, so technically, I could spend $1000 in May and go DSMlink first (I have to buy the EPROM ECU, too) and play with it, but without WBO2, it'd be risky business. I obviously need DSMlink before the injectors, though.

So I'm thinking pump+WBO2 first. Then DSMlink. Then injectors. Then the joyride of learning to tune

I'd rather get the Supra pump over the Wally255 for noise and the rumored pickup issues with the wally, but I can't find it with the common online vendors. Anyone who knows where I can get a 2g AWD "bolt on" Supra pump, chime in. I'm not against upgrading the pump fixture (no dual pump stuff, though), but I don't know if they have one designed for the Supra pump...everything's wally this, wally that on the DSM vendor sites.

So pretend it's your money and live vicariously through me.

Thanks!

 

[turbosax2]

I would buy the pump and wbo2 first. I recommend the Innovate LC-1 for the wbo2, it did great in the wb shootout, has good customer support, and is adjustable with their software. They have a bunch of different gauges to choose from depending on your budget and taste (the XD-16 is expensive but very nice). I've heard of too many cases of people having problems logging aem's through ecmlink so I would stay away from them just for that reason.

Then I would wait and get the eprom, ecmlink, and injectors all at once. There's no point in tuning the car for the stock injectors when you have to retune the fuel all over once you get new injectors. Plus, you know you're gonna turn up that boost and run of injector real quick once you can tune I know from personal experience; my brother and I thought the same way - buy dsmlink first, practice tuning with the stock injectors, then get big injectors and we'll be ready to tune well. After a couple days of messing with dsmlink we had it down and we're maxing his injectors out after turning up the boost. Then we were kicking ourselves for not getting the injectors at the same time! A map sensor is a handy tuning tool if you can fit it in there too.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

I have my bank account handy if you need my routing and account number.

If i were to buy a wideband, i would get a Innovative. Then buy the the AFPR kit. That will put you a little over. Then, buy the injectors, and fuel pump and fuel lines, fittings, filter and all that jazz. Then dsmlink the last month.

EDIT: There is no bolt-on supra pump. You will have to hunt one down.

James

 

[turbosax2]

Then buy the the AFPR kit. That will put you a little over. Then, buy the injectors, and fuel pump and fuel lines, fittings, filter and all that jazz.

He already has all that jazz (checked his profile).

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

He already has all that jazz (checked his profile).

Oh. Well, then i would follow Erics path then. Seems the best so far. The supra pump is a nice choice. If you can grab one, i would. Unless you are shooting for 600 hp, that should be plenty. What injectors do you want to get?

James

 

[PIMking]

I just started my car tuesday night and I did alot of work to it and one part was installing a wally 255lph hp pump. I did not really notice the noise one bit.

 

[snowborder714]

I'd agree with Eric's suggestion. I don't think I have anything else to add to it.

 

[kenamond]

I would buy the pump and wbo2 first. I recommend the Innovate LC-1 for the wbo2, it did great in the wb shootout, has good customer support, and is adjustable with their software. They have a bunch of different gauges to choose from depending on your budget and taste (the XD-16 is expensive but very nice). I've heard of too many cases of people having problems logging aem's through ecmlink so I would stay away from them just for that reason.

Then I would wait and get the eprom, ecmlink, and injectors all at once. There's no point in tuning the car for the stock injectors when you have to retune the fuel all over once you get new injectors. Plus, you know you're gonna turn up that boost and run of injector real quick once you can tune I know from personal experience; my brother and I thought the same way - buy dsmlink first, practice tuning with the stock injectors, then get big injectors and we'll be ready to tune well. After a couple days of messing with dsmlink we had it down and we're maxing his injectors out after turning up the boost. Then we were kicking ourselves for not getting the injectors at the same time! A map sensor is a handy tuning tool if you can fit it in there too.

I may do DSMlink+injectors together, but I'm the slow, careful, chickenshit type. If I keep stock injectors and mess everything up, I can still revert back to the stock maps and drive the car to work. That's the careful and chickenshit part talking. The slow part is related to careful and chickenshit, but it usually means that in preparation for project A, I read, think, read again, think more, then do A. Then I do the same for project B. So I'll focus on installing ECU/DSMlink/software (project A), then learn tuning as part of doing the injectors and tuning (project B).

I'll have to look into the MAP stuff. I assume this is on the IM, maybe in place of that pressure differential sensor or something? I've not thought much (yet) about blow-through MAS or anything, but it makes sense that having temperature, density, and pressure just before the cylinders instead of WAY upwind lets you tune better.

Oh. Well, then i would follow Erics path then. Seems the best so far. The supra pump is a nice choice. If you can grab one, i would. Unless you are shooting for 600 hp, that should be plenty. What injectors do you want to get?

James

The problem is finding where to grab one. If there's an aftermarket DSM pump assembly with the Supra pump, that'd be ideal. The seal on the Saginaw fitting at the stock assembly high pressure line is a hack, and it's under the asses of my kids, and I don't want them to catch on fire. I'd rather have pure AN fittings for the high pressure connections.

As far as where I'll take this car, I think "sky's the limits" applies. I ordered it from the factory back in '96 and plan on keeping it forever. And just having it sit there is boring, so I'll keep improving it until I run out of improvements or until it dies a horrible death in some accident some day in the future. So for now, I'm looking at maxing out my fp big28 turbo then building a 6-bolt 2.4L and continuing the journey from there. So I'm sort of going overkill in some places "just in case".

 

[snowborder714]

Even if you upgrade injectors, you'll still be running on stock maps (fuel, timing, airflow) until you start changing stuff. All you have to change is global % and deadtime to get larger injectors to idle and drive like stock ones.

The MAP sensor is very helpful when tuning and will get you one step closer to going speed density if you choose to do so. This isn't something that you'll need right away though. A MAP sensor will just require some vacuum source (I have mine sourced from a tee in the FPR line) and can be mounted anywhere (mines up under the dash) or screwed into the bottom of a SMIM if you ever get one.

Hopefully I find my G4CS before you want one

 

[turbosax2]

I have no doubt you'll pick up tuning with ECMlink quickly. And if you "mess up" tuning with aftermarket injectors, all you have to do to revert back is to go back to the base global and deadtime settings for your injectors. The car will run as long as the global and deadtime are relatively close to ideal, it just takes some more work to perfect them, then of course tuning the fuel by rpm comes in.

For the map sensor, it's just used for logging right now. Once they release speed density then it can be used (if you so choose) to tune the car in conjunction with an iat sensor. It's just handy to have for tuning so you don't have to watch the boost gauge during pulls to know exactly what the boost is doing throughout, you have it logged! My brother has one on his car and I honestly never look at the boost gauge anymore (except occasionally to check vacuum readings at idle). In fact, I rarely look at his wbo2 gauge either, except at idle or cruise to check to see if it's around 14.7.

I think there are some adapters out there so you can bolt the map sensor into the stock mdp port on the intake manifold. On my brothers car we just spliced the boost gauge line that goes into the cabin and have the map sensor tucked under the dash. This also helps keep the map away from the heat of the engine bay which could skew readings. I'm not sure if this is a concern with his AEM 5 bar, but I have seen other map sensors that recommend keeping them inside the cabin for that reason.

 

[kenamond]

So this means that I have to wait another month to get DSMlink (is it called ECMlink now?). I'll probably start thinking about blow-through when I'm doing the FMIC short-route pipe fab. That's next after this current list. Unless I decide to do water/meth injection first...which reminds me...if I went AEM EMS instead, does it support "extra maps" for controlling whatever-the-hell-else-you-dream-of? I worked with a TECII ECU in college, and it let you program an extra map for controlling a voltage output based on map and rpm (NA motor). We used it for controlling a stepper motor for variable-length intake runners (didn't get it working in time, though). I'm wondering if that sort of map could be used to control a water/meth setup. Or perhaps ECMlink can do this as well?

 

[snowborder714]

I would really give blow thru some thought, especially if you want to go speed density at some point.

I'm not familiar enough with AEM, but you can use ECMlink's (yes, with V3 came a new name) nitrous controls to control meth injection.

 

[TommyDSM]

How much power are you looking to make? Sorry if I missed what turbo you said you were running... From personal experience. I say stick with 2g Maf unless you over run it. GM Maf is a PITA to calibrate and you'll always be tweaking it... Its a cool factor but everyone I know ends up going back to 2g Maf... And always solves their problems...

Pick up a v2 DSMLink if you can... Not sure what state your in but v2 you can use the Palm software if your state has Emission laws like NY. If you don't have a Rear o2 your going to get INCOMPLETE as status and probably fail inspection... With v2 DSMLink you use the palm software to set all the sensors to ready so when they plug in to check its good to go. As of last I check v3 didn't have the Palm software to do that...

So I would do free mods first like rewire fuel pump... DSMLink, LC-1, Injectors, Pump, Regulator... You probably would want to upgrade your Fuel Filter and line to the stock fuel rail because that is a restriction....

Reason I pick that order is because you can use DSMLink to tune your current setup... If you got any fuel components before Link you can't do anything with it... Your stuck with what you have... LC-1 Next, Because now you can see how your currently running and use Link to tune it... Size your injectors and pump for the turbo you plan on running... You can go 950 or even higher Since Link can compensate for it. Ive ran 950 and car idles like stock.

 

[snowborder714]

GM Maf is a PITA to calibrate and you'll always be tweaking it... Its a cool factor but everyone I know ends up going back to 2g Maf... And always solves their problems...

I have been running a GM MAF and haven't had a hard time tuning it. Yes, it takes some time to get it dialed in, but my car runs great with it and doesn't need constant tweaking (although I do anyway).

As of last I check v3 didn't have the Palm software to do that...

Correct, it is in the works.

So I would do free mods first like rewire fuel pump... DSMLink, LC-1, Injectors, Pump, Regulator... You probably would want to upgrade your Fuel Filter and line to the stock fuel rail because that is a restriction....

As already stated, he has this stuff done already.

 

[TommyDSM]

I have been running a GM MAF and haven't had a hard time tuning it. Yes, it takes some time to get it dialed in, but my car runs great with it and doesn't need constant tweaking (although I do anyway).

And since he's new to Link, having the GM Maf and calibrating is one more headache for him to learn. Which he doesn't need... If you go GM Maf, you'll want to get the GM3Bar Sensor also to calibrate that GM Maf... Yes you can use the WBo2, but not as accurate as the GM Map sensor...

As already stated, he has this stuff done already.

Sorry, I didn't look up his profile...

 

[snowborder714]

And since he's new to Link, having the GM Maf and calibrating is one more headache for him to learn. Which he doesn't need... If you go GM Maf, you'll want to get the GM3Bar Sensor also to calibrate that GM Maf... Yes you can use the WBo2, but not as accurate as the GM Map sensor...

I started tuning link with a GM MAF. There are plenty of website out there that walk you through step by step on how to tune it. Yes, it is harder than a stock MAF, but it's not like trying to tune, say AEM EMS. I'm not trying to divert him from using it as it works fine once you get it dialed in. But yes, it's easier to tune other systems, but might also be beneficial to go to something more complicated.

I totally agree about using a MAP sensor over a wideband!

 

[TommyDSM]

I started tuning link with a GM MAF. There are plenty of website out there that walk you through step by step on how to tune it. Yes, it is harder than a stock MAF, but it's not like trying to tune, say AEM EMS. I'm not trying to divert him from using it as it works fine once you get it dialed in. But yes, it's easier to tune other systems, but might also be beneficial to go to something more complicated.

I totally agree about using a MAP sensor over a wideband!

Yeah, I'm just thinking ease of use plus its one less thing he needs to spend money on, with less modifications...

 

[kenamond]

I would imagine that if you had the option, tuning with MAP and WBO2 would be better than tuning without WBO2. How do you know your AFR without WBO2? Sure, the sensors tell you more accurately what your load is, but there's no way without accurate fuel metering to know how much fuel is being delivered. I'm going WBO2 first, so it doesn't really matter, right?

So now all I have to do is find a pump setup with a Supra pump.