The importance of a high performance head gasket!

[strippedlug]

Feel free to kick me. I'm kicking myself even harder! After my big 16g install. 20psi consistant boost, no spike or creep. Tuned beautifully by myself, No knock, no fuel cut, no running engine ! Aint life grand!

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[strippedlug]

After months and months of research and talking to pros, not one person mentioned the importance of cometic head gaskets. Not blaming anyone but myself don't worry. ARP's website specifically states studs and cometic gaskets req'd for anything 20psi and above. Lesson learned!

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[strippedlug]

No damage to bottom end. I'm am SOOOOOOO lucky believe me I know! Pic taken without ARP's for cleaning purposes

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[xveganxcowboyx]

I figure it's a good safety net. Better the head gasket than something more expensive.

You've got a crack in your exhaust manifold.

 

[kraka]

Ive ran 20-25psi on my old '91 with a fully supported EvoIII on pump gas, daily also...

Stock ORIGINAL HG and studs....Should look into possibly other issues causing the HG, it shouldn't just blow up from 20psi

 

[romeen]

The stock composite HG with ARP's has proven itself for higher boost than you were running. I know several guys who run the stock HG with ARP studs into the mid 20's for boost without any issues. I'm not saying that an MLS gasket is not a good idea BTW, just that it's not always absolutely necessary depending on one's goals.

 

[GVR4592]

I'd like to see some close up pics of the gasket, pistons, and combustion chambers, it looks like there was a ton of detonation.

 

[marcmsj]

What kind of head gasket is that?

 

[strippedlug]

What kind of head gasket is that?

Felpro

 

[strippedlug]

I'd like to see some close up pics of the gasket, pistons, and combustion chambers, it looks like there was a ton of detonation.

That's about as close as i can get with this camara and still get a clear picture. I can try tomorrow. What gives you the idea there was a ton of detonation? If you're referring to the marks on cyl 1 piston, you can thank E3 spark plugs for that. No severe damage, just more than I'd like to see. Let me know you're reason and I"ll take a closer look. I watch a/f and knock as much as I watch the road, and I've got it set beautifully. But like I said, maybe you're seeing something I'm not.

 

[strippedlug]

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[DSMcamaro]

Felpro makes pretty good gaskets. Not saying it couldn't be a gasket failure, but I would try to check for other causes before taking a second shot with the motor. How long was the motor going before the head gasket went out?

 

[strippedlug]

Honestly I think GVR is on the right track. This is probably detonation. Makes sense since I was pulling fuel with the AFC to get rid of fuel cut. According to gauges I kept stoichiometric though. I don't have a logger to see if i'm actually seeing knock which really sucks. I know the knock LED is crap, so any ideas out there? How can I tell without a logger of any kind, if I'm seeing massive knock, causing detonation? I was lucky to have only blown the head gasket THIS TIME! I don't want to push my luck!

 

[Jeff_Ciesielski]

Honestly. This is probably detonation. Makes sense since I was pulling fuel with the AFC to get rid of fuel cut. According to gauges I kept stoichiometric though.

According to a wideband,or to an autozone a/f gauge?? If its wideband, stoich is WAAAY to lean under boost. If you mean an autozone gauge, then that means basically nothing.

edit: although, if you were dead on stoich with that af gauge, then the gauge might be right, because it is only accurate around 14.7:1. Which would still mean too lean.

 

[pooker]

Was your head warped any?

 

[polen]

woah that sucks

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

I've been running over 20lbs on a pte 50trim for a few years now on stock 7-bolt motor hg, studs, etc.

Others even more extreme. You were just unlucky, or something else you did wrong.

EDIT, just read your replies, looks like improper tuning equipment had the best of you. AFC, and with no logger, and going based on perhaps (until you reply) narrowband gauge. That's asking for trouble.. as we see here today.

Good excuse to do a nice rebuilt though! Good luck and keep us updated.

 

[awd6boltsi]

i always thought that felpro gaskets were good, but i heard somebody the other day call them... fail-pro

 

[strippedlug]

Well at this point i'm blaming myself on not having the proper tuning equipment. I still think the Felpro can be a weak link in my setup, but I'm far from blaming the gasket. Obviously I lulled myself into a false sense of security with the tuning. I never would've thought (lesson learned) that I could've run THAT lean and not KNOWN it by the running condition.
I'm not going to have the cash right away to get a logger but do expect to get one in 2 weeks. Wouldn't raising fuel pressure with the AFPR help out until the logger comes? I do want to tune the right way, I'm not searching for short cuts. Ironically I thought I had sufficient "tuneability". We all make mistakes right? I'm also curious as to whether my Snap-on shop scanner shows knock count on live data. Wouldn't be able to change the data, but I could at least see what's going on.
The head checks out. No warpage at all. I agree it's a good excuse for a rebuilt, but hell, it was just done 6 months ago !

 

[strippedlug]

One more question: Most pocket loggers have the same ability and then some than the AFC right? If so then it makes no sense to keep both. Perhaps my best bet is to sell the AFC in order to get the logger.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

wow, that is one of the better blow outs i have ever seen of a HG.

 

[luvmygst]

Feel free to kick me. I'm kicking myself even harder! After my big 16g install. 20psi consistant boost, no spike or creep. Tuned beautifully by myself, No knock, no fuel cut, no running engine ! Aint life grand!

How do you claim to have a beautiful tune and dont even own a logger?WTF IF you sell the afc to get a logger then you have no way to tune. That was definatly knock. You were running with stock injectors according to your profile. Turn the boost WAAY down get a logger and a wide band. Then don't use a felpro gasket, i have had a couple of friends try them with no luck at all. I used the stock mitsu. gasket on mine and have not had a problem yet. You need a FMIC to run those boost numbers safley, the stock sidemount will not cool enough. You have a long way to go to run those nubers reliably. Just my .02

GOOD LUCK, I hate it happened to you but I did the same thing when I first got into DSM'S so I cant criticize too much.

EDIT: you know that a 2g logger will not show knock right? you have to watch the timing, or get a chip and turn the useless stock boost gauge to show knock.

Damn good blowout though

 

[nightspeed87]

One more question: Most pocket loggers have the same ability and then some than the AFC right? If so then it makes no sense to keep both. Perhaps my best bet is to sell the AFC in order to get the logger.

No a logger is just what the name implys.
No dont raise your fuel pressure that has nothing to do with it.
If you were running lean from pulling to much fuel avoiding fuel cut then
all youd be doing is covering a bandaid with a bandaid by adding fuel pressure.
You fix one problem at a time, and in this case it woudlve been coming to why
you were hitting fuel cut.
And personally I dont care much for afc's there just a hack way of tuning.
You can be a master afc user and I still wouldnt recommend the tune.
Get dsmlink or a chipped ecu tune and be better off any day of the week..
And you must have been having detonation, your tuning methods werent too good
as youve realized. Good thing with a keydiver chip, it can convert your stock
boost gauge into a real time knock counter so you wont have to log every pull and have
a decent base tune that you wont ever have to adjust if its a normal dd, and you can
still use your safc to fine tune after that... BTW this is what I run problem free, no adjusting anything no headaches...
www.dsmchips.com

Your welcome... good luck

 

[nightspeed87]

How do you claim to have a beautiful tune and dont even own a logger?WTF IF you sell the afc to get a logger then you have no way to tune. That was definatly knock. You were running with stock injectors according to your profile. Turn the boost WAAY down get a logger and a wide band. Then don't use a felpro gasket, i have had a couple of friends try them with no luck at all. I used the stock mitsu. gasket on mine and have not had a problem yet. You need a FMIC to run those boost numbers safley, the stock sidemount will not cool enough. You have a long way to go to run those nubers reliably. Just my .02

GOOD LUCK, I hate it happened to you but I did the same thing when I first got into DSM'S so I cant criticize too much.

EDIT: you know that a 2g logger will not show knock right? you have to watch the timing, or get a chip and turn the useless stock boost gauge to show knock.

Damn good blowout though

yea and listen to this guy he's right on the money...

 

[strippedlug]

Ok looks like the keydiver chip and logger are the way to go. Thanks for helping out and not bashing too bad! This has been a very educational experience, and thankfully, not TOO expensive! Any other suggestions I'll gladly listen to.