Swapping dashes legally

[silentscreamer]

How have you guys been swapping your dashes out for better condition or black ones? the vin is attached to the dash by special pop rivets and it is considered theft to drill them. are most peopl etaking a chance and running swapped dashes or do most people buy the dash with the title of the car and just switch the registrations? my problem is I am going to pull teh dash out of an avenger and with tails that say talon I dont think it would be too good having it registered as an avenger.

I do have a call into the local authority but my curiosity has me writing this thread.

thanks ahead.

 

[Boomdeeze]

My car came with a swapped cluster but I checked the carfax and thankfully it had the miles on there and it was recent. My odometer says 46000 when my car really has 104000

 

[99gst_racer]

There honestly isn't a way to legally swap the dash, unless there's such thing as an authorized person that can swap the VIN plates - but I've never heard of such a person.

If I had to do it, I'd drill the rivets and swap on the proper VIN plate. They say it's illegal to tamper with the VIN plates, but it seems more honest to have the VIN plate match the vehicle. I'd just source out the same rivets that they used from the factory (or as close to the same as possible at least).

 

[ramsack]

Law used to be about intent. Changing the VIN tag to deal with changing the dash to keep the right tag to the right car is not illegal. Tampering would be swapping it to the wrong car to make it look like another car, copying it, or changing the VIN. It's a felony to remove catalytic converters and airbags but it's not enforced.

 

[LiquidX]

When I swapped mine out, I just went out and bought a $10 rivet gun and swapped over the correct plate. I orgionially contacted my DOT and they said to contact the police about it.

IMO how is it illegal by putting the CORRECT plate on? I'm not driving around in an Avenger haha

 

[99gst_racer]

Tampering is a general term and they'll decipher it any way they want. If you drill the rivets, it's still tampering. Sad but true. Common sense would tell us that if a person is doing this, it's with good intentions, but unfortunately, the law trumps common sense these days. However, I've never heard of a person geting in trouble for swapping VIN plates to properly match their car, and I'd assume it's enforced about the same as the catalytic converters and airbag tampering laws. I honestly wouldn't worry too much about swapping the plates.

 

[ramsack]

Any law can be viewed any way but the rivet is not part of the tag therefore you're not really tampering with the plate. Tampering means to alter. You are simply moving the tag's location. If you drive your car you're moving the tag's location too. Tampering with evidence means you are messing with it to change the information it contains. You CANNOT get in trouble for something so stupid. They make the laws to get criminals, not inhibit regular people from doing something simple or honest. If your speedometer breaks and you get a new cluster it's technically illegal to match the mileage because that IS tampering, but common sense will tell you that they will not bust you for it. They have the law to protect people from buying cars from dealers who might roll back miles.

 

[2GbTalonGuy]

You dont even have to drill the rivets. You can take a proper sized hole punch and tap the rivets out from the under side of the dash. Then swap the plate, place the rivet back in the hole, and use a wooden wedge or something to protect the rivet while gently taping it in with a hammer. That way you have the correct rivets in and you have the correct vin on too. And you can't tell that the rivets have been "tampered with." Af the rivets seem too loose, (which they probably won't) with the dash upside down, support the top side with a jackstand or something, place a block of wood between the rivet and what you're supporting it with, and use a smaller punch to widen the bottom side of the rivet.

 

[99gst_racer]

You CANNOT get in trouble for something so stupid.

Please cite the law that backs this up.

I'm not saying I agree with it, but it is the way that it is. The law isn't concerned with your definition of "tampering". Yes, sometimes the law prevents good people from doing honest things. The law is far from perfect, but it doesn't mean you get to only follow the parts that you agree with.

 

[ramsack]

The very definition of tampering means unauthorized altering. That is not an interpretation. If anyone would get into "trouble" for something like this but if you have nothing to hide and are not running a crime ring of any sort it would go to court and just get thrown out. Laws like this were made when common sense was around, and are enforced that way. They aren't 1000s of pages documents on this one particular issue. Crap like the Patriot Act and other insane new laws are full of circular logic to make it so if they want to use that law to put you down they can. If you run some kind of shop and you are say stealing a car to replace a crashed one for someone and you are swapping VIN plates all throughout the car, yeah, you will get in trouble for that. They don't care about some every day person changing their dash. You go to a junk yard and get a dash and they don't even remove the VIN plate. That just shows you how trivial this issue is anymore. It's sad to live in a world like this where people are so scared of every law instead of practicing common sense.

 

[GSXSixteenG]

In NY, if you swap dashes and swap vin's, you have to contact the dmv to verify that the correct vin has been switched over. They then issue a special special vin and a new title. They do this to ensure the vehicle does no contain stolen parts. I also read, that they may add salvage or rebuilt to the title.

* Section 71.3.* Special vehicle identification numbers.

Upon application of the owner, the commissioner shall cause an examination of a vehicle to be had. If the vehicle is not stolen, and does not contain stolen parts, and if the applicant has proof of ownership, a special vehicle identification number will be affixed to the vehicle. If the vehicle requires a title, a new title with the special vehicle identification number will be issued.
15 NY ADC 71.3
15 NY ADC 71.3
2008 WL 75304509
15 NY ADC 71.3

 

[ramsack]

You contact the DMV if you are some sissy boy scout type, otherwise you just take a circular saw to the old dash or burn it if you live out in the sticks, or best yet sell it to someone who isn't a snitch boy scout. Oh how this world is going to crumble when martial law kicks in Laws like this are not for people really. They are for business. This is a perfect law for after an accident, insurance pays, and the shop might have to replace the dash. Then it becomes in paper and it's proof that it was done.

 

[GSXSixteenG]

You contact the DMV if you are some sissy boy scout type, otherwise you just take a circular saw to the old dash or burn it if you live out in the sticks, or best yet sell it to someone who isn't a snitch boy scout. Oh how this world is going to crumble when martial law kicks in Laws like this are not for people really. They are for business. This is a perfect law for after an accident, insurance pays, and the shop might have to replace the dash. Then it becomes in paper and it's proof that it was done.

I'm just stating the facts, not rambling on to what I think. I'm not picking sides, or telling the OP what to do. Just letting him know of the actually laws in my state. Chances are it would be pushed aside for like what you said, no intent to deceive. I didn't look for any court cases yet that could hold any precedence.

 

[thomcasey]

OP is located in Canada, none of our laws will apply as I am sure they are different between provinces

 

[ktgurl87]

i know i had to call the license and theft bureau and they had to come out and remove the plate when they got a new VIN issued for the car. then they just put a new lil sticker in the door jam. quite painless and didn't cost anything. OP you're just gonna have to call whichever authority it is that takes care of such things and just ask them.

 

[speedy13]

i deal with this somewhat at the shop with dealer cars that are rebuilt title and CD. What is usually done is just swap over vins, keep the old plate and a receipt from where you "legally" bought it from. Thats all thats required here, but in canada, who knows...

 

[silentscreamer]

Thanks for the replys guys. like i said i have a call in and the "head" inspector is supposed to call me back about the situation. i thought it would be more common because of junkyards selling dashes and stuff. main reason for this post is i have really bad luck when it comes to the law, i got pulled over because my car was black but the regi said red still and it was a sunday afternoon when i got it back on the road. last thing i need is to have my car impounded for the vin# not matching the regi.

again thanks for the replys and laying a bit of my curiousity to rest.

 

[kdiddy01]

im actually pretty curious if there's a right hand drive dash that i could put in the car

 

[LiquidX]

No there isn't as it's an american made vehicle

 

[azdave]

You don't drill the riverts!

On several 2G dash swaps I never drilled the rivets. You simply heat them gently from below with a small soldering iron until they pop out of the plastic dash (but still attached to the metal tag). I then do the same to the other dash and swap the tags. On a few swaps I used a tiny amount of JB-Kwik Weld on the back side to help hold the rivet so the tag would stay flush and appear untouched. I also took before and after photos of both titles and dashes to keep on file if anyone ever claimed I was trying to hide something.

 

[2GbTalonGuy]

You don't even need to heat them, You can just tap them out with a hole punch. But JB weld is a good idea to hold them in.

 

[ramsack]

Paranoid about the law...jeez.

I'm no expert in JDM CRAP but the FTO appears to be the same thing as the 2g DSM. The dash looks the same, you would need the firewall, too.

 

[AK Maniak]

Paranoid about the law...jeez.

I'm no expert in JDM CRAP but the FTO appears to be the same thing as the 2g DSM. The dash looks the same, you would need the firewall, too.

The FTO's interior looks quite a bit different, I don't think it would fit without quite a bit of custom fab work

 

[ramsack]

The styling is different, but everything is in the same place. The shifter is. The lines where the dash meet the door panels appear the same, too. Maybe shapes are slightly different but the cars appear to be almost the same. There are no vents for the FTO door panels, but that would be easy. It would seem to me that the FTO is to the 2g as the GTO is to the 3SI, but not as obvious, and with some more differences than just being RHD.

 

[westcoast]

Isn't there other locations on the car where the original VIN is stamped into the metal? I know the original engine comes with the "stamp" but I was sure there was another "stamp" along the chassis somewhere.