swapping a bellhousing

[duwackerTSi69]

Ive got a 95 TSi AWD 5spd and my tranny's bellhousing needs to be replaced. I dont want to risk buying a used tranny ### of the risk of getting one with bad synchros. I have a good 5-6 inch long hole and its about1 inch wide. I have a new bellhousing, but what I want to know is it hard to swap them out?? Thanks

 

[dsmfreak1984]

it's not realy that complicated as long as you know what you'r doing. my advice, get a service manual before attempting if this is you'r first time doing any tranny work. The hardest part of the job is going to be getting the trans out of the car. just make sure to seal anything you take apart realy good with some black RTV (thats what ive always used) and tourque everything to spec.

 

[duwackerTSi69]

Ha ha, taking crap apart is the fun stuff.. Its getting all the peices in order to make it work and work properly.. I have the bellhousing sittin in my garage and from the looks of the internal side of it, seems like theres alot of pieces I have to remove to swap them over?? Im sure its a "pay attention to what the f#$k your doing" kinda thing? So its a fairly strait forward thing then?? Thanks

 

[XLR8]

This is the type of thing that is best to have someone who has done it before help you out. I usually use red rtv, since the fluid in there can get so hot. Good luck.

 

[jrohner]

It's harder to get the tranny removed and reinstalled than it is to disassemble and reassemble it.

The main thing is to pay attention when you take the tranny apart. Lay things out in order while you take them out, and maybe take a few pictures (not with a cellphone cause the quality won't be good enough).

Before taking it apart and after putting it back together, shift it through all the gears to make sure it feels right. If something doesn't feel quite right, take it back apart and figure it out. It should go in all the gears quite easily by hand. If you use that weight thing on the shifting mechanism on the tranny, it works really good as a 'shifter' while on the workbench.

If you spin the shaft, it's easy to tell if each gears is working correctly when shifting through them all. You want to do this, because there is one bolt on the outside of the case for reverse that if you miss it, it will go into reverse & 5th together when going to reverse (basically reverse would then be a park gear).

 

[twicks69]

Ive got a 95 TSi AWD 5spd and my tranny's bellhousing needs to be replaced. I dont want to risk buying a used tranny ### of the risk of getting one with bad synchros. I have a good 5-6 inch long hole and its about1 inch wide. I have a new bellhousing, but what I want to know is it hard to swap them out?? Thanks

Swapping bellhousings requires a complete dissassembly of the transmission. You will either reuse the bearing races for the input shaft, intermediate shaft and output shaft, or you will have to purchase replacement bearings and press the new ones on the shafts and install the bearing races into the transmission bellhousing case. Either way, you will need to reshim the transmission, and install new input shaft, output shaft and driver side axle seal, along with new end shaft nuts and roll pins and a viscous coupler snapring. This is the bare minimum. Personally, I would go forward and do a quick refresh on it with new shift forks, synchros, essential bearings, and check the hub and sliders and other parts for wear or damage and replace whatever is necessary to get the job done.

If you are interested in having someone that has done this before do this for you, please PM me and I can see what I can do to help you out. I am in the Waukesha area, and am around 3 hours away from you.

Otherwise, I do have a couple 2G AWD 5-speed transmissions sitting around that have been fully rebuilt and are for sale.

 

[duwackerTSi69]

If I understand you correct, then when the tranny is taken apart I will have to replace a few parts because of the way mitsubishi made these things.. Yeah I know where you are exactly, and what do you think of me making the trip to your place and we'll make it a weekend or something and get this thing replaced?? I dont need a new tranny because this one is perfect besides the bellhousing, otherwise I would consider it and buy one off ya. I would rather replace whats needed so I can get some knowledge out of it.. And what exactly is re-shimming? Thanks for the reply's fellas.

 

[twicks69]

Yeah, lets see what we can do, and what scheduling looks like as the winter rolls on. Shoot me a PM and we will go from there!

 

[duwackerTSi69]

Okay heres the update on my bellhousing swap..Now dont make fun of me here.... I got it all swapped over on the new housing and went as to plan, but while I took the rear cover to get the first section of the tranny apart, i did this.. While i was kinda prying up on 5th gear and tapping down on the shaft it sits on I messed up the threads to put the nut back on. Kinda the same thing when you try to get your tie rod out od its place..So I either need to get a new stack of gears, or I can replace the shaft itself? Or a new tranny?
So does anyone have this stack of gears and or the shaft laying around collecting dust?? I knew i shouldnt have been banging on that darn thing but i did and lesson learned..**slaps himself in the face** I tried to find a Tap and Die kit to fix it but no luck, and this machine shop told me i should realy just replace it instead, so someone help a brother out... Thanks guys

 

[Venomos]

Ive got a 95 TSi AWD 5spd and my tranny's bellhousing needs to be replaced. I dont want to risk buying a used tranny ### of the risk of getting one with bad synchros. I have a good 5-6 inch long hole and its about1 inch wide. I have a new bellhousing, but what I want to know is it hard to swap them out?? Thanks

I am sitting here reading your thread and for a second I thought you had my car! I am in the same boat and actually gonna attempt the same or look for a built one so I dont have to worry about it. But I thought I would throw this pic up of my mess I have. Mind you the whole car is a mess...I just bought this thing and brought it home last Sunday...I know, I have ALOT of work to do! But let me know if yours looks similar to this...at least your not the only one! !

 

[1whitegsx]

I just did a bell housing on my buddies awd. A shop that will remain nameless dropped a washer down his vehicle speed sensor hole and the diff caught it one time and made a nice little hole in the bottom of it. It was the first time I have had an awd tranny apart but it wasn't that difficult. def recommend a manual in case you get in a binde. you just have to set everything out in order and do the opposite putting it back in.

 

[twicks69]

Okay heres the update on my bellhousing swap..Now dont make fun of me here.... I got it all swapped over on the new housing and went as to plan, but while I took the rear cover to get the first section of the tranny apart, i did this.. While i was kinda prying up on 5th gear and tapping down on the shaft it sits on I messed up the threads to put the nut back on. Kinda the same thing when you try to get your tie rod out od its place..So I either need to get a new stack of gears, or I can replace the shaft itself? Or a new tranny?
So does anyone have this stack of gears and or the shaft laying around collecting dust?? I knew i shouldnt have been banging on that darn thing but i did and lesson learned..**slaps himself in the face** I tried to find a Tap and Die kit to fix it but no luck, and this machine shop told me i should realy just replace it instead, so someone help a brother out... Thanks guys

Well, you are going to need a new shaft. Were you trying to take off the 5th gear (large one with hub and slider and shift fork) or the 5th intermediate gear (small one). If it is the 5th gear, then you will need a new input shaft, and if it is the 5th intermediate gear, you will need a new intermediate shaft.

A new input shaft is around $125, and a new intermediate shaft is around $225.

I would strongly reccomend having someone who knows how to rebuild a DSM transmission take over now, as it has already costed you.

I did say that I could help you out before.

 

[twicks69]

I am sitting here reading your thread and for a second I thought you had my car! I am in the same boat and actually gonna attempt the same or look for a built one so I dont have to worry about it. But I thought I would throw this pic up of my mess I have. Mind you the whole car is a mess...I just bought this thing and brought it home last Sunday...I know, I have ALOT of work to do! But let me know if yours looks similar to this...at least your not the only one! !

You will likely need a new input shaft if your clutch exploded; it is common to see damaged splines or even a bent input shaft. If run in this condition, failure or increased damages can occur. I would reccomend contacting TRE or Shep for a quote, and shipping your transmission to them for a new bellhousing and having them inspect the transmission for other damages.

 

[TurboATM]

not to go off topic, but did you resently buy this car, from a guy in Mn...? a 95 tsi awd with a kit, molded rear and sideskirts, black...with a whole in the bell housing from the clutch breaking apart??

if so, the guy u got it from owes me $440 that I paid on the car....

 

[duwackerTSi69]

I am sitting here reading your thread and for a second I thought you had my car! I am in the same boat and actually gonna attempt the same or look for a built one so I dont have to worry about it. But I thought I would throw this pic up of my mess I have. Mind you the whole car is a mess...I just bought this thing and brought it home last Sunday...I know, I have ALOT of work to do! But let me know if yours looks similar to this...at least your not the only one! !

My tranny looked exactly the same as yours did..Funny how some some thing can do so much damage huh? Makes me wanna get a scatter sheild,.. It really aint no sweat taking it aprt and transfering the internals to a new housing, its just they make gear pullers and ball joint separaters for a reason, and now i learned it the hard way..

not to go off topic, but did you resently buy this car, from a guy in Mn...? a 95 tsi awd with a kit, molded rear and sideskirts, black...with a whole in the bell housing from the clutch breaking apart??

if so, the guy u got it from owes me $440 that I paid on the car....

I got my car from my bro's girl friend and she got it from a Hmong guy around march of 2008 here in wisconsin. My car is all stock body pannels and its like a tiel blue color. The the hole in the bellhousing was caused from the pressure plate shattering at about 4k rpm's 2 days after my bro's girl purchased it.. She actually baught someone elses problem basically?

 

[duwackerTSi69]

Well, you are going to need a new shaft. Were you trying to take off the 5th gear (large one with hub and slider and shift fork) or the 5th intermediate gear (small one). If it is the 5th gear, then you will need a new input shaft, and if it is the 5th intermediate gear, you will need a new intermediate shaft.

A new input shaft is around $125, and a new intermediate shaft is around $225.

I would strongly reccomend having someone who knows how to rebuild a DSM transmission take over now, as it has already costed you.

I did say that I could help you out before.

Yeah it was the small 5th intermediate gear shaft that i messed up. John from Team RIP will be in Steven Point,Wi this weekend and I am going to ask him if he could take a look at it if he has a chance and or to bring the parts I need? My bro got a stage 3 tranny for his 95 sti awd about 4 months ago so he's good friends with him at this point.. So hopefull he can help me out or something??*crosses fingers** I know you said you could help me out and all but im a loner man and I figuired I would give it a shot myself.. I did it all without a manual and it went smooth till i got the majority of it back together and came to that dang shaft.. Ill take a pic and post it when i get home to show ya's what i mean.. So you dont have a spare shaft just taking up space or anything? I guess just hit this thread back up or something and go from ther... Thanks

 

[twicks69]

Yeah it was the small 5th intermediate gear shaft that i messed up. John from Team RIP will be in Steven Point,Wi this weekend and I am going to ask him if he could take a look at it if he has a chance and or to bring the parts I need? My bro got a stage 3 tranny for his 95 sti awd about 4 months ago so he's good friends with him at this point.. So hopefull he can help me out or something??*crosses fingers** I know you said you could help me out and all but im a loner man and I figuired I would give it a shot myself.. I did it all without a manual and it went smooth till i got the majority of it back together and came to that dang shaft.. Ill take a pic and post it when i get home to show ya's what i mean.. So you dont have a spare shaft just taking up space or anything? I guess just hit this thread back up or something and go from ther... Thanks

You will need a press and bearing splitters to remove the gearset from the intermediate shaft, along with new inner and outer tapered roller bearings, new snapring, and it would be worth replacing your 1st and 2nd gear synchros and replacing any other worn parts while you are at it.

I hope that Jon can help you out, but I wouldn't get my hopes up considering he is visiting Wisconsin, and probably doesn't want to do a transmission inspection/rebuild on his visit -- just me though.

Just trying to give you a hand.

 

[duwackerTSi69]

This is how far I am in the swap.. Im going to have the whole tranny cleaned befor she goes in the car that way it not so Frankenstein ugly looking.. Im thinking I might just have to pick up a new tranny after what I did considering how much parts are going for and the availability on tranny prices on ebay and local salvage yards?? I dont expect John to rebuild this thing for me, just to buy a few parts from him and have him bring them with when he comes to town to save on time and shipping.. So we will say when I speak to him later...

 

[twicks69]

It looks like you used a metal hammer to reinstall the 5th intermediate gear -- that would cause problems (like you didn't know that already...); be sure to use a rubberized dead-blow hammer next time, along with a properly sized socket or installer sleeve to pound the 5th intermediate gear back on; making sure to have it properly mesh with the 5th gear assembly.

As well, I really hope that you used your old tapered roller bearing races which were pressed into your old bellhousing for the input shaft, intermediate shaft and output shaft; otherwise you will need to pull the entire thing back apart. You cannot use a tapered roller bearing with a different bearing race; they will not match up -- you need to use its "matched" bearing race. As well, did you fully clean out the old bellhousing? Did you pull out the intermediate shaft oiling guide (black plastic disk)? Did you replace the driver-side axle seal? The output shaft seal? Clean the trash magnet? etc.... You should also use a new clutch fork and clutch fork pivot ball, and new clutch fork boot.

Either way, you will now need to remove the 5th gear and 5th intermediate gear assembly, along with the viscous coupler, snapring and detent ball, then remove your center differential, then the upper gear cluster cover, then the reverse gear/shaft and bracket, then the shift fork/shift rail and the gear stacks again. After that, you will need to remove your intermediate shaft tapered roller bearing race and oiling guide (clean it out), and then install a new intermediate shaft bearing race into the bellhousing. As well, you will need to fully disassemble your intermediate shaft.

To do this, you will need your snapring pliers to remove the lower intermediate shaft snapring, then press off tapered roller bearing using a bearing splitter, then the 1st/2nd gear assembly using a bearing splitter between 2nd gear and the 3rd gear that is part of the casting of the intermediate shaft. After that, you will need a new intermediate shaft, and new intermediate tapered roller bearings for both sides. Then I would fully degrease and inspect for wear all the parts (gears, synchros, hub and slider surfaces, hub and slider keys and springs, and gear needle bearings). You will need to press in a new intermediate shaft outer bearing race into the intermediate case (top cover under 5th gear) -- I would also strongly reccomend learning how to properly shim a transmission so that it will shift better (would be done after everything is back onto the intermediate shaft).

Once all parts are cleaned, inspected, and detailed, you will need to purchase and replace any wearable parts. Upon reassembly, you will need to press on a new outer tapered roller bearing (that correspond to their specific bearing races that are installed into the bellhousing and the intermediate case), then reassemble the gear cluster and hub and slider assembly and reinstall onto the new interemediate shaft. Afterwards, install your new inner intermediate shaft tapered roller bearing, and a new snapring.

After all of that is done, then you can finally reassemble your transmission and reshim the transmission.

Don't forget to permatex the case sections and let them tack before reassembly. As well, don't forget to use a NEW viscous coupler snapring, along with NEW end shaft nuts. Be sure to also inspect your reverse cone and reverse cone wave spring (attached to the 5th gear cover) for wear or damage. The reverse cone wave spring should have two small retaining tabs that hold it to the reverse cone/5th gear cover casting. If it is worn excessively, or are missing those tabs, replace them. As well, be sure to check the three small machine screws that attach the reverse cone and make sure they are tight. They are to be installed using loctite if you remove them.

Be sure to follow torque specifications for the end shaft nuts, transmission case hardware, shift rail detent ball plugs, reverse gear slider bolt, 5th/Reverse detent bolt, reverse sensor, and drain/fill plugs.



I forgot to ask....How do you intend on cleaning your transmission? I would strongly reccomend against using water if this transmission is not installed since you do not want water to get into the transmission or on any of its interior surfaces if it is assembled.

I usually clean the case and gear cluster stuff when it is fully disassembled, then degrease and pressure wash the case, then hot tank it if necessary, then bead blast, then rinse again, then blow dry and brake clean any other materials that are left. For the gear cluster stuff, I do everything by hand degreasing using brake-clean or similar no-residue chemical cleaner.

I hope that this helps.

Good luck.

 

[1whitegsx]

WOW! that hole looks a lot worse when the tranny is outta the car. good luck man!

 

[duwackerTSi69]

WOW! that hole looks a lot worse when the tranny is outta the car. good luck man!

I even put about 70 miles on it when she was in the car so I could get some problems diagnosed when the pressure plate shattered....I did replace the clutch and PPlate befor I did that..But ts a good 12 inches long and about 2 1/2 wide at its widest point.. I ended up rebuilding the motor and cleaning the engine bay up back in late 2008 and I still find little peices of pressure plate in my engine bay every once in a while.. Pretty messed up huh? When do you plan on getting your car back together??

 

[1whitegsx]

Mine is together right now. The tranny I just did was on my buddies 98 AWD. There was a perfect washer hole in his right below the front differential. It took me a little while to do just because I probably went through 3 different tranny's he brought me finding different things that were reusable. he didnt know when it got the hole in it until it was too late so I ended up putting all new bearings in it and mix matching some better looking pieces from the other tranny's.

 

[duwackerTSi69]

It looks like you used a metal hammer to reinstall the 5th intermediate gear -- that would cause problems (like you didn't know that already...); be sure to use a rubberized dead-blow hammer next time, along with a properly sized socket or installer sleeve to pound the 5th intermediate gear back on; making sure to have it properly mesh with the 5th gear assembly.

As well, I really hope that you used your old tapered roller bearing races which were pressed into your old bellhousing for the input shaft, intermediate shaft and output shaft; otherwise you will need to pull the entire thing back apart. You cannot use a tapered roller bearing with a different bearing race; they will not match up -- you need to use its "matched" bearing race. As well, did you fully clean out the old bellhousing? Did you pull out the intermediate shaft oiling guide (black plastic disk)? Did you replace the driver-side axle seal? The output shaft seal? Clean the trash magnet? etc.... You should also use a new clutch fork and clutch fork pivot ball, and new clutch fork boot.

Either way, you will now need to remove the 5th gear and 5th intermediate gear assembly, along with the viscous coupler, snapring and detent ball, then remove your center differential, then the upper gear cluster cover, then the reverse gear/shaft and bracket, then the shift fork/shift rail and the gear stacks again. After that, you will need to remove your intermediate shaft tapered roller bearing race and oiling guide (clean it out), and then install a new intermediate shaft bearing race into the bellhousing. As well, you will need to fully disassemble your intermediate shaft.

To do this, you will need your snapring pliers to remove the lower intermediate shaft snapring, then press off tapered roller bearing using a bearing splitter, then the 1st/2nd gear assembly using a bearing splitter between 2nd gear and the 3rd gear that is part of the casting of the intermediate shaft. After that, you will need a new intermediate shaft, and new intermediate tapered roller bearings for both sides. Then I would fully degrease and inspect for wear all the parts (gears, synchros, hub and slider surfaces, hub and slider keys and springs, and gear needle bearings). You will need to press in a new intermediate shaft outer bearing race into the intermediate case (top cover under 5th gear) -- I would also strongly reccomend learning how to properly shim a transmission so that it will shift better (would be done after everything is back onto the intermediate shaft).

Once all parts are cleaned, inspected, and detailed, you will need to purchase and replace any wearable parts. Upon reassembly, you will need to press on a new outer tapered roller bearing (that correspond to their specific bearing races that are installed into the bellhousing and the intermediate case), then reassemble the gear cluster and hub and slider assembly and reinstall onto the new interemediate shaft. Afterwards, install your new inner intermediate shaft tapered roller bearing, and a new snapring.

After all of that is done, then you can finally reassemble your transmission and reshim the transmission.

Don't forget to permatex the case sections and let them tack before reassembly. As well, don't forget to use a NEW viscous coupler snapring, along with NEW end shaft nuts. Be sure to also inspect your reverse cone and reverse cone wave spring (attached to the 5th gear cover) for wear or damage. The reverse cone wave spring should have two small retaining tabs that hold it to the reverse cone/5th gear cover casting. If it is worn excessively, or are missing those tabs, replace them. As well, be sure to check the three small machine screws that attach the reverse cone and make sure they are tight. They are to be installed using loctite if you remove them.

Be sure to follow torque specifications for the end shaft nuts, transmission case hardware, shift rail detent ball plugs, reverse gear slider bolt, 5th/Reverse detent bolt, reverse sensor, and drain/fill plugs.



I forgot to ask....How do you intend on cleaning your transmission? I would strongly reccomend against using water if this transmission is not installed since you do not want water to get into the transmission or on any of its interior surfaces if it is assembled.

I usually clean the case and gear cluster stuff when it is fully disassembled, then degrease and pressure wash the case, then hot tank it if necessary, then bead blast, then rinse again, then blow dry and brake clean any other materials that are left. For the gear cluster stuff, I do everything by hand degreasing using brake-clean or similar no-residue chemical cleaner.

I hope that this helps.

Good luck.

Yup that sound about right and man did you just type all that off the top of your head??.. Im talking with Jon right know to see what parts he has and what his professional thaughts are.. Not saying you dont know what your saying or anything.. Everything from the original bellhousing was transfered over like you asked.. I did clean that magnet off and boy was it just amazing what that thing traps?? Only thing that went wrong was that shaft. I was planning on cleaning the casings with some paint stripper and Engine Bright and wire brushes.. But now seeing that I have to take it all apart again, I wil tape off certain things and throw it in my sand blaster and use Wallnut Shells instead of beads or sand..
I called all my local salvage yards today and no one has a 21-23 spline tranny at all for an AWD Manual.. You told me befor that you had a few tranny's for sale? Well what could we work out? My Talon's at my bro's house at the moment so I think I will have to put the controle arms back on and make it able to be trailered to my storage warehouse for when I get the tranny issue straightened out? I got my tranny out last saturday and was planning on putting it back in this saturday? So I guess one step befor the other and we will see what happens next.. Thanks

 

[twicks69]

Yup that sound about right and man did you just type all that off the top of your head??.. Im talking with Jon right know to see what parts he has and what his professional thaughts are.. Not saying you dont know what your saying or anything.. Everything from the original bellhousing was transfered over like you asked.. I did clean that magnet off and boy was it just amazing what that thing traps?? Only thing that went wrong was that shaft. I was planning on cleaning the casings with some paint stripper and Engine Bright and wire brushes.. But now seeing that I have to take it all apart again, I wil tape off certain things and throw it in my sand blaster and use Wallnut Shells instead of beads or sand..
I called all my local salvage yards today and no one has a 21-23 spline tranny at all for an AWD Manual.. You told me befor that you had a few tranny's for sale? Well what could we work out? My Talon's at my bro's house at the moment so I think I will have to put the controle arms back on and make it able to be trailered to my storage warehouse for when I get the tranny issue straightened out? I got my tranny out last saturday and was planning on putting it back in this saturday? So I guess one step befor the other and we will see what happens next.. Thanks

Yes, that was of the top of my head....

Yes, I do have spare 1G and 2G transmissions right now that are rebuilt and for sale. Shoot me a PM and we can talk more about it.