Stock longblock record

[Doug118]

Does anyone have any ideas as to what the quickest/fastest stock longblock Dsm is? Or a horsepower number? There's plenty of threads talking about stock shortblock but I'm looking for stock block and head times. Headstuds are okay

 

[Doug118]

I still can't find much. All that pops up is the stock shortblock record but nothing with the stock head also

 

[TSi-Rocket]

Lookup Ostar motorsports. The set and still hold the stock block record. I think the motor had arp rod/main/headstuds. Made 600 something awhp and ran 9.28@154ph. They ran it for a full season at the track boosting 40+psi. At the end of the year a rod went thru the block but still impressive.

 

[Doug118]

stock LONGblock, that means stock head and bottom end

 

[EG Hatch]

Even stock cams?
I'm interested to know this as well since I'm trying to build a quick stock block car and I'm curious.

 

[TSi-Rocket]

Almost anyone that's dumping money into a car will at least protect there investment hence arp hardware. People push stock bottom end to 400-450whp in a street car. What is your intension with this information? People drop in cams, springs, retainers, arp hardware, HLA, ect. Not many ppl push a totally stock motor. I mean you can arp stud a motor pretty cheap.

 

[Doug118]

Headstuds only. I need an ET to set my sights on. I really don't want to try to beat Ostars record with a stock head. Surely someone out there has claimed quickest stock head/block setup

 

[miliman13]

This information is one goggle search away, I hope your computer recovers from what ever it is; since you didn't find your info.

 

[Doug118]

Instead of being a smarta**, why don't you provide a link because I've found NOTHING on this topic. Only Evo stuff

 

[usmcjay]

Instead of being a smarta**, why don't you provide a link because I've found NOTHING on this topic. Only Evo stuff

I am also interested in this info. Building a car just for the street is too damn expensive. My build now I'm Turning it into a track car so I can make some money back hopefully

 

[taylork057]

most people have cams/and studs minimum.. finding someone that wants to beat drag times with stock cams is a shot in the dark.

you are asking for a unicorn thread.. that information isnt relevant to anyone, but you.

 

[Doug118]

most people have cams/and studs minimum.. finding someone that wants to beat drag times with stock cams is a shot in the dark.

you are asking for a unicorn thread.. that information isnt relevant to anyone, but you.

Clearly it is relevant since the guy right above you wants the same info

There's a record for every single turbo out there but none for stock engine? That makes sense.

 

[bastarddsm]

I think this will be though to find because chasing arbitrary records is arbitrary. Once apron a time we cared about going fast, now everyone wants a participation trophy so record for fastest stock engine with arp studs, or stock engine with cams, ect...

 

[Fejery4491]

I'm pretty sure the old Project Goodwill car got pretty deep into the 11s with stock longblock AND stock 14b turbo. You'd think in the last 10 years someone would have bested that with all the awesome stock flange turbos we have at our disposal.

Edit: I just quickly glanced through your build journal. S366 and you want >500whp and 9 sec times? Don't be a fool and just get cams. Forget this "record" and worry about going fast.

 

[mavericktsi83]

The car that comes to mind is Mike Rizzotti’s 1g. Made something like ~600 to the wheels and went mid-10s full-interior iirc, it was many years ago. This was on a “stock long block” except for headstuds—really well setup, tuned, driven, etc. and lasted hundreds of passes like this. This was also accomplished when low-mileage long blocks were around. And was by no means a car intended to blow up after one or so pass or dyno pull to hit a magic number or so-called “record”. I remember seeing Mike Rizz car for the first time on the Buschur forums long ago…you may be able to find some details on his car if you search. Also, apparently everyone has a different definition and opinion of what a “stock long block” is—mine would not include ARP head studs, etc. This stuff really devolves into the meaningless and arbitrary even worse if you stop and think about it.

 

[TSi-Rocket]

Goodluck setting any records without head studs. The 14b can blow the head gasket without headstuds(I know you will run headstuds). If your going to set a record your gonna have a lot of money into making the car showroom perfect first... your not gonna set any records with a 20+year old car that needs a "frame off" refresh like brand spanking new: wheel bearings, driveshaft, bushings, axles, built transmission, mint tcase, a perfect complete motor, wiring that hasn't been rattling around wearing down for 20yrs causing potential voltage drop, a perfecdt tune, ect(like mike rizzotti's car). Any worn part will limit your 1/4 times.

Without cams you will never take advantage of the high flow of larger turbos(as soon as the turbo spools your gonna be out of stock cam efficiency). Your really gonna be limited if total power output excluding what the stock bottom end will handle. Your best bet would be a fast spooling decent flowing turbo that will put down an awesome powerband within your usable rpm range, stock cams will drop power between 6200-6400rpm and this setup will product some torque. On a side note big torque is what strips 3-4th gear in manual cars. A fast spooling higher flowing turbo that may work would be an evo X based twin scroll turbo prob a billet 20g version but will require a custom manifold/downpipe.

 

[taylork057]

^^^^he doesn't care about data, just wants to go fast with stock cams!! (a record no one cares about)

 

[bastarddsm]

Goodluck setting any records without head studs. The 14b can blow the head gasket without headstuds(I know you will run headstuds).

The limiting factor in a stock longblock will be the stock valvesprings way before the factory headbolts. You do realize that the crank is held in by the same number of 10mm bolts, and it's subject to the same forces as the head? That part seems to hold up just fine. It's also a little more sensative to fastener stretch.

Todd Meunier went 10.02 on a GT35 with a basically stock engine (headbolts and all) and pump gas + meth.

Rizzoti had a buscher head IIRC.

Without cams you will never take advantage of the high flow of larger turbos(as soon as the turbo spools your gonna be out of stock cam efficiency). Your really gonna be limited if total power output excluding what the stock bottom end will handle. Your best bet would be a fast spooling decent flowing turbo that will put down an awesome powerband within your usable rpm range, stock cams will drop power between 6200-6400rpm and this setup will product some torque. On a side note big torque is what strips 3-4th gear in manual cars. A fast spooling higher flowing turbo that may work would be an evo X based twin scroll turbo prob a billet 20g version but will require a custom manifold/downpipe.

Any how do you know any of this? Let me guess, you've ran a big turbo on a stock longblock? So what fast spooling decent flowing turbo do you recommend? Keep in mind, he's got a stock shortblock so he has to keep the timing down and the airflow up. He'll need a turbo capable of ~700whp to get this done. What tricks do you have up your sleeve? How many guys have gone 9's or even 10's on a billet 20g?

OH HEY WASN'T THERE A GUY WITH A HX35 ON A STOCK ENGINE INCLUDING CAMS THAT MADE 600WHP, AND IT MADE GOOD POWER TO 9000? http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/holset-hx35w-dyno-stock-head-block-606-awhp.490819/

So much for stock cams not making power after 6200...

 

[1qkfwd]

I went 11.0 on a full stock engine from intake to oil pan. Only two mods where arp head studs and balance shaft delete. Stock head including cams and full stock block even hardware. This was also being locked out of 4th gear. My 1/8 mph that pass was 110mph. Had it been a clean pass it wouldve been bottom 10s all day long.

 

[TSi-Rocket]

Most engine dyno I have seen with stock cams will peak torque around 5,500rpm and peak horsepower around 6,400. That dyno peaked at 7,000 because he has a hawver short runner intake manifold that helped move the peak power up a little and had valve springs to accommodate 9,000rpm. The motor made 600hp/450tq @ 7,000 and was making 550/350 @ 8,000rpm 475/300 @ 8,700. Opinions vary but I would argue 125hp/150ftlbs is a loss of power which is what i'm getting at, to each his own and I wont argue that its not decent power. Different cams will help move the powerband into the higher rpm, but then your limited by the stock intake manifold. Most dyno's with a big turbo, cams, and short runner intake will peak power with not such a sudden drop off after peak.

This is the turbo I was referring to. Its basically a faster spooling hta68 which English racing pushed into mid 10s although not a stock motor and not a full weight car. This turbo is between a fp green and red for evo x.
http://www.forcedperformance.net/me..._Code=49S36-07000&Category_Code=Lancer-TurboX

^54lb/min, but its not gonna net 700whp tho and the mhi turbos seem to loose reliability at higher boost.

Has a true record been confirmed is 10.02 the time to beat? Is 700hp needed? Is it gonna be a full weight car? Auto/manual? Auto will dyno lower but will haul at the track and will hold up better to 700ish hp.

 

[pimpy rider]

there is a lot of good points here. one thing i know is there is a good point to know how capable the stock stuff is, because the transmission will strip the gears over 500 hp pretty quickly. there is a lot of dudes out there who could run a stock longblock and spend their money on trans upgrades instead. you can make 500 plus on stock intake/cams/springs. it has been done. i think 600 has been done but dont remember for sure

 

[Doug118]

The car is a 2100-2200lb auto gsx. Should have mentioned that

 

[NordicSaab]

Most engine dyno I have seen with stock cams will peak torque around 5,500rpm and peak horsepower around 6,400. That dyno peaked at 7,000 because he has a hawver short runner intake manifold that helped move the peak power up a little and had valve springs to accommodate 9,000rpm. The motor made 600hp/450tq @ 7,000 and was making 550/350 @ 8,000rpm 475/300 @ 8,700. Opinions vary but I would argue 125hp/150ftlbs is a loss of power which is what i'm getting at, to each his own and I wont argue that its not decent power.

The car you are speaking about is mine and while you are mostly correct there is a variable here you are not considering. When I built the car I mad that much HP by accident. I had a goal of 500whp and I overshot it by a significant margin. As a result there was a significant amount of performance left on the table tuning wise. There was no timing advance above 6500 rpms. Running e85 I could have easily found another 80-100 hp which would have all been above the 7000 rpm mark.

Boost cures many things. I'm not going to say stock cams are the way to go, but they can produce power. Also, the Hawver intake manifold changes the game (I bought a whole car to get this manifold). In regard to longevity... the engine in the dyno died about 4 weeks ago. I was in Gainsville and after a handful of low boost runs I turned it up to high boost. The piston rings must have given up because the oil system became pressurized and blew a line off my oil cooler. I thought it was funny the rings gave out and not the rods.

 

[Fejery4491]

QUOTE="Doug118, post: 153558375, member: 157333"]The car is a 2100-2200lb auto gsx. Should have mentioned that[/QUOTE]

You realize Raus old tube chassis 2g was in the 21xxx lb range. Most gutted 1g dont get below 2600-2700. Where the heck do you think you'll be scrubbing all this weight?

 

[Doug118]

I don't think I'll be getting to that weight, I already have. All it takes is a lot of cutting wheels, sawzall blades, and big balls