2G Starter Plate

[kcd]

So...

After putting the engine back into my car, I realized that I forgot to put the starter plate back between the engine and the tranny.

Could this be the reason why my car isn't starting?

 

[pauleyman]

Isn't cranking? Yeah that could be a problem. If it is cranking but doesn't start then no. It isn't a problem in that respect. You have to fix it either way.

 

[kcd]

So I have to pull my engine...again?

 

[Type1DSMr]

You need to put the starter plate back in. Did you change the plugs back around, that gofer gave you in great in depth details yet? Also you shouldn't be posting in newbie section anymore.

 

[kcd]

Wasn't sure where else to put this and I needed answers right away. I have put 70+ hours into this project so I'm sorry that I forgot to put it in the right section. I did switch my plug wires around. All I'm asking is if the starter plate is important because I can't see it making that big of a difference. I have heard of people just putting washers back there but I wasn't sure.

 

[19Eclipse90]

The starter plate missing won't prevent the car from starting. However, it is extremely important and washers are not a substitute at all. Get a starter plate in there.

 

[pauleyman]

Yes. You have to pullit again. At least the trans. I can sympathize but 70 hours isnt alot. I wouldnt even care to think how many hours I have over 20 years.

 

[luv2rallye]

70+ hours is nothing compared to a destroyed flywheel ring gear because of misalignment (and possible tow home). Not to mention all the starter pinion gears that will get beatup.

 

[Mauispyder]

A real friend sometimes tells you what you don't want to hear.

 

[xiteamxi]

Maybe its possible to just separate the motor/ trans enought to slide it in place? About 3/8 of an inch to get it over the lower alignment pins. Although you won't be able to put in the 2 small 10mm bolts that hold the starter plate to the block I don't see that being a big deal as all the trans bolts hold it also. But it could save you from pulling the axles, pressure plate, clutch, flywheel, and trans all the way out if it worked. Just a thought..

 

[pauleyman]

No. It goes behind the flywheel. Trans comes out. Its the only way.

 

[CaitSith]

The truth hurts man.

I use to go through clutches, about 1 every year, and the third time I replaced it, I found a resurfaced flywheel on CL. I thought I'd cut my time down by a day (machine shop delay). I took the day off work to do the proj in one fatal swoop.

Installed everything, went to crank it and the FW was from an AWD not a FWD. Towed it from my friends garage and had a shop OEM it (FW+clutch=>$1k). I was so pissed.

It sounds like, with that frustration, it might be time to take it somewhere or prepare your self for another day of work.


Good luck dude.

 

[xiteamxi]

No. It goes behind the flywheel. Trans comes out. Its the only way.

I understand that still should be plenty of room between the flywheel and block , minus not being able to install the 2 small 10mm bolts as I stated.

 

[turtlebain]

The starter plate is meant to keep your starter in place. Right now, it's installed in aluminum (soft metal) your threads will be damaged soon and holes out of round. If you run it like that your starter will be in the middle of the road somewhere and wiring wrapped around the axle. It won't be pretty, not to mention it's dangerous. I just recently had the wrong starter plate installed & I was puzzled when the starter wouldn't bolt in. It sucked. I had to remove the trans. I did it myself with a regular jack and a block of wood. I wouldn't recommend this it was a balancing act and almost dumped the transmission onto a concrete floor. Some people say pull the engine.. I disagree it's much less time and effort to pull the transmission. Invest in a transmission jack if you'l be doing the job more than once.

Pauley is right 70 hours isn't much. I can't even begin to count the hours in my project.

 

[xiteamxi]

The starter plate is more of a spacer /cover (like the lower inspection cover) it doesn't locate the starter the trans bolt holes do. Yes I fully understand there are different starter plates for fwd/awd with different hole spacing. It just spaces the starter to the right depth from the flywheel ring gear nothing to do with the over all starter location it doesn't magically change the location of the starter holes on the transmission . Turtle brain, starter plate or not , you realize the bolts always thread into the starter (aluminum) this doesn't change.

 

[turtlebain]

Yes I understand it, it's there to keep bolts in place and space correctly. Without it your bolts would strip and fall out. I can guarantee you that. The aluminum is good to hold the bolt torque. Not side to side forces and vibration.

 

[xiteamxi]

Not saying they may not strip but if they did it would be due to the starter dragging from being to close to the ring gear for a very long time and I even highly doubt that , trust me its its mainly a depth placement for both starter to trans and trans to motor. None the less it should be installed, I was just suggesting it may be possible by only separating the trans motor just enough to slide it into place saving some labor.

 

[turtlebain]

OK agree to disagree....

Why not just take out the clutch and flywheel so you can do it right? What kind of time are we saving here? How are you going to get to these bolts?

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Just remove everything, install the plate and be done with it IMO.

 

[xiteamxi]

I stated you wouldant be able to install those 2 smaller 10mm bolts , I agree the right way is to pull everything so you can install the smaller bolts but I'd say its kind of like the 4th bolt on 2g headlights (if you ever removed them you would know) more of a pain then its worth.

As for the time savings the way I suggested trying would save pulling the tires/lower control arms(to pop the axles)/popping axles/dropping trans/ removing pressure plate/fly wheel then all of this in revirse order, thinking under the more of "it's worth a shot" theory and if it wouldant work then continue on with the full removal.

Just a suggestion no hard feelings

 

[kcd]

It's funny because I didn't install the starter plate because it wouldn't fit. I figured we bent it while separating the trans any engine. Turns out the AWD and FWD have different plates.

And guys, I realize for you 70 hours is nothing. But I am a college student trying to juggle school and 2 jobs and this project. So putting in 70+ hours in less than two weeks is quite a lot for me.

Thanks for all the advice. Guess I'll be ordering the right plate today and pulling the engine and trans when it gets here.

 

[turtlebain]

Only one axle has to come out. and 3 bolts for control arms. Since he just installed them they aren't rust seized or anything.. Don't even have to bother taking the axle out from the transmission, just undo it at the knuckle. What, a couple more minutes to do that? OP, Do it right man.

 

[luv2rallye]

KCD: In case you didn't know, to speed up tranny removal on a 2g, you don't have to remove axels from their hubs or remove ANY ball joints: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/pulling-transmission-tomorrow.316646/#post-151688536.

Starter plate PN: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/bought-my-first-dsm.459007/#post-153217957

 

[kcd]

So I all I have to do is disconnect the control arm on the passenger side, pull the axle out, and then I'll be good to go? Other than taking out the tranny to engine bolts. Do I have to take out the tranny mount too?

 

[turtlebain]

Unbolt the Subframe transmission mount where it attaches to the bell housing. and once you have a jack on it, loosten the long bolt that attaches the tranny side motor mount to the frame, unbolt the bolts that attach it to the black bracket. I think that's how I did it anyway.

 

[xiteamxi]

Yes popping the axle from the trans is way faster (then the hub) and same goes for removing the inner bolt on the lower control arm way faster then messing with the ball joints.