Stant 14077

[Th3ory]

After searching the forums, I have found 170 degree thermostat I want to try out on my 2g. A few members have used the Stant14077 thermo, however one of the threads indicates that thermostat *DOES NOT* come with the rubber seal on the thermostat itself.

After comparing photos, the OEM thermostat has a rubber seal, while the Stant14077 has no rubber seal...

Is the Stant intended to function without the rubber seal?

 

[Gandalf]

It needs the seal which can be removed from the old thermostat

 

[pauleyman]

I don't think many thermostat s come with the seal. The seal is typically purchased separately. It isn't part of the thermostat on any unit I've seen, stant or otherwise.

 

[shinzon]

Why do you want to try a 170deg thermostat? If you're having a problem, a 10degree colder thermostat won't fix any overheating issues--the normal operating temperature of a 4G63 is around 203-206, well above where the thermostat opens. If your car doesn't have any issues, you'd just be slowing down the engine from reaching operating temperature, promoting faster engine wear.

 

[Th3ory]

Car doesnt over heat unless its in the 90s+, with heavy stop and go triffic.

The 2g dsm has issues with air flow. With a large fmic, and some mishimoto slim fans, the problem is amplified.

The car runs right around 200 on a cold day, however im looking forward to summer.

Regardless, I want to see if I can get a little lower engine temps.

I have removed the rear hood seal, im going to try a 170 thermostat, will be switching to spal fans (everyone should get spal or stay stock if they can), and ill be fabricating a true cold air intake.

After running an EF1 on the dyno and also a Green on the dyno. I can see the temps are a bit higher then I would like. My goal is 25psi on the Green with 92 pump and a new setup, im at 22/23 depending on ambient air temp.

So im going to *try* try... out a new setup. Having the engine run a little cooler, with torco fuel additive. If it doesnt help, well atleast I tryed it out . Then ill just have to go flex fuel and run E85.

 

[shinzon]

Unfortunately, like I said, a different thermostat wont lower engine operating temperatures, it'll just make the engine take slightly more time to come up to the same temperature. As you point out, 2gs have terrible airflow (the trade off for having one of the lowest coefficients of drag for any spots car in its class ever) and it only gets worse when you add a FMIC.

Granted I live in Florida, but even on a cold day it doesn't take very long for the engine to come up to temp, so I doubt you'd notice any difference at all with a 10 degree colder thermostat.

If you're looking to lower coolant temps, your best best is to increase airflow over the radiator. People build ducting between the the sides of the FMIC and the radiator to force the air passing through the FMIC through the radiator. You could also try additives like water wetter

Though I haven't gotten that far yet, I'm planning on going with an air/water intercooler down in place of the stock side-mount so I don't have to fight coolant temps after adding a FMIC. Maybe look into going that route.

Do you have heat shields on your turbo? I've noticed they make a huge difference on the ambient temperature of the engine bay, and thus on the ability of the engine to dissipate heat.

 

[donniekak]

Throw the mishimoto fans in the trash, and run spal fans.

I could drive around with ac on in 125* ambient air with a huge fmic and not overheat. Any other fans and I couldn’t run ac.

 

[streetraceboi]

Throw the mishimoto fans in the trash, and run spal fans.

I could drive around with ac on in 125* ambient air with a huge fmic and not overheat. Any other fans and I couldn’t run ac.

What this guy said. Also, some ducting helped TONS for my Texas summer heat. Better directed airflow where it needed to be gave me cooler engine temps. I also installed a hood vent soon after which also helped.

 

[Th3ory]

Do you have heat shields on your turbo? I've noticed they make a huge difference on the ambient temperature of the engine bay, and thus on the ability of the engine to dissipate heat.

Hot side of the green is coated, and i use a blanket on the exhuast mani. Works as good as when I ran all the heat shields on the EF1 turbo.

 

[Vegas Smith]

As already mentioned, a lower-temp thermostat will not help high temps; it will only work if the system works well enough to achieve the low temp. For example, it would be like elongating the throw on your car's a/c slider all the way down to negative 100 degrees. You can slide that baby all the way down if you want but your car's a/c will never be able to output -100 degree air.

 

[Th3ory]

As already mentioned, a lower-temp thermostat will not help high temps; it will only work if the system works well enough to achieve the low temp. For example, it would be like elongating the throw on your car's a/c slider all the way down to negative 100 degrees. You can slide that baby all the way down if you want but your car's a/c will never be able to output -100 degree air.

It would be more like a house AC which runs off an actual thermastat...

If the ac is to activate when the temp reaches 68 inside the house. And turn off at 63. Now it would be like the ac turns on at 66 not 68, and the temp in the house would never see 68. Thats if I have the abilty to cool the coolant down, which will take stock or spal fans.

Anyways, i understand what your saying. Im not having a lot of overheating issues, just want to observe how the car handles/reacts with a little less engine heat. Might be good, might be bad.

 

[Vegas Smith]

I have a 180* thermostat and my cars runs at 196...

 

[shinzon]

Anyways, i understand what your saying. Im not having a lot of overheating issues, just want to observe how the car handles/reacts with a little less engine heat. Might be good, might be bad.

I don't think you're following me. The thermostat's function is to block off the flow of water through the radiator so that the engine warms up quickly. Once the thermostat is fully open, whether that is 170 or 180 degrees, it will have no effect on the ultimate operating temperature of the engine. The engine needs to get up to operating temperature as quickly as possible to warm the oil up to properly protect the internals, and so the catalytic convert functions efficiently.

The only thing a 170 degree thermostat will do is cause the engine to warm up more slowly--like I'm talking a minute or two more slowly at cruise--because it's opening sooner... that's not what you want. You want to lower the operating temperature, not make it take longer to get to operating temperature. See what I'm saying?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Pretty sure the ECU needs it to come up to 180*-190* for it to gather information for LTFT and STFT use. Probably something that you never thought about. Just throwin that out there.
From the ECMWiki:
The ECU will force open loop mode for a number of different reasons. The following is intended to list out the more common reasons. If any one of these is true, then the ECU will run in full open loop mode. That is, STFT will not be used and, of course, learn mode will not be active either.
1G Open loop mode (any one true)

• Throttle position too high (varies by RPM)
• Airflow too low (units are tricky, but it's very low)
• Coolant temp < 87F
• The O2 sensor did not switch around 0.5v for over 20 seconds while running in closed loop mode. In that case, the ECU locks itself in open loop mode.

2G Open loop mode (any one true)

• Throttle position too high (varies by RPM)
• Airflow too low (units are tricky, but it's very low)
• Coolant temp < 51F
• Coolant temp > 228F
• The O2 sensor did not switch around 0.5v for over 128 seconds while running in closed loop mode. In that case, the ECU locks itself in open loop mode.

All of the following have to be true for a full 5 seconds. If any single one is not true even for a millisecond, the timer starts over and trends in STFT will *not* be moved into LTFT.

1G Learn mode (all must be true)

• Coolant temp >= 190F
• Intake air temp < 123F
• Baro >= 22.9 inHg
• Baro ⇐ 31.6 inHg

2G Learn mode (all must be true)

• Coolant temp >= 180F
• Intake air temp < 133F
• Baro >= 22.9 inHg
• Baro ⇐ 31.6 inHg

The full article is here.....
https://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/fueltrimupdatepoints

 

[Th3ory]

Pretty sure the ECU needs it to come up to 180*-190* for it to gather information for LTFT and STFT use. Probably something that you never thought about. Just throwin that out there.
From the ECMWiki:
The ECU will force open loop mode for a number of different reasons. The following is intended to list out the more common reasons. If any one of these is true, then the ECU will run in full open loop mode. That is, STFT will not be used and, of course, learn mode will not be active either.
1G Open loop mode (any one true)

• Throttle position too high (varies by RPM)
• Airflow too low (units are tricky, but it's very low)
• Coolant temp < 87F
• The O2 sensor did not switch around 0.5v for over 20 seconds while running in closed loop mode. In that case, the ECU locks itself in open loop mode.

2G Open loop mode (any one true)

• Throttle position too high (varies by RPM)
• Airflow too low (units are tricky, but it's very low)
• Coolant temp < 51F
• Coolant temp > 228F
• The O2 sensor did not switch around 0.5v for over 128 seconds while running in closed loop mode. In that case, the ECU locks itself in open loop mode.

All of the following have to be true for a full 5 seconds. If any single one is not true even for a millisecond, the timer starts over and trends in STFT will *not* be moved into LTFT.

1G Learn mode (all must be true)

• Coolant temp >= 190F
• Intake air temp < 123F
• Baro >= 22.9 inHg
• Baro ⇐ 31.6 inHg

2G Learn mode (all must be true)

• Coolant temp >= 180F
• Intake air temp < 133F
• Baro >= 22.9 inHg
• Baro ⇐ 31.6 inHg

The full article is here.....
https://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/fueltrimupdatepoints

Yes im aware, it can be adjusted so the ecu sees what anyone wants it to see. People have ran 170, 160 and 143 thermostats and adjust for Learn mode

 

[Th3ory]

Thanks all for the input, Ill start by replacing the mishimotos. I might be able to fit the stock fans and shroud back on with the down firing turbo. If not some spal fans.

 

[Th3ory]

Updated for future information.

There are a few different 2g turbo thermostat seal brands. I went with the fel-pro. Most of the time, sticking with OEM seals/gaskets is by far the best way to go. But for the thermostat seal, I felt comfortable with the aftermarket.

Here ia a picture of the thermostat and seal part numbers I used.