Stage 3 DSM Chip for power & racing, Yes or No?

[supa89]

Quick question, I have a 95 gs-t and recently did a 6 bolt swap. Currently i'm running
Big 16 turbo, FMIC, 525 injectors, greddy 3'' exhaust system, slowboy racing manifold, 38mm wastegate, walbro 255 fuel pump and turbo xs rfl bov.
I've been using a SAFC 2 to tune the car. After reading about the chips i'm interested in them but I want to make sure it offers what i'm looking for.
My car is 100% streetable but i'm more into racing at the tracks on pump gas, does these chips give me a better tune to race on than me hiring a tuner to tune my SAFC-2?.
My tuner always tell me to buy a dsm link or aem system but i'm comfortable with what I have and using what I have for now, plus i never listen so he just tunes my car with what I have.
So what is better to give me more power, a dsm chip or a SAFC-2 or they are the same?, also with the chips do they read out over 300hp if you dyno the cars after with them installed?
As you can see, i'm just looking for the best way to make more power without buying a dsm link or aem management system.

 

[silver bullit]

Dsmlink is 600, a dsm chip, safc and logger runs you about 400+ on a good day.
Every time you change injectors etc you need the chip changed reflashed for 20? or so $.

Cheaper and better to get dsm link. Not to mention the tuning on dsm link is geared for what you are trying to do.

safc and chip works best together, and you need a logger. You can make 300+hp with it if done right.

 

[supa89]

any more feedbacks?

 

[delta448]

Quick question, I have a 95 gs-t and recently did a 6 bolt swap. Currently i'm running
Big 16 turbo, FMIC, 525 injectors, greddy 3'' exhaust system, slowboy racing manifold, 38mm wastegate, walbro 255 fuel pump and turbo xs rfl bov.
I've been using a SAFC 2 to tune the car. After reading about the chips i'm interested in them but I want to make sure it offers what i'm looking for.
My car is 100% streetable but i'm more into racing at the tracks on pump gas, does these chips give me a better tune to race on than me hiring a tuner to tune my SAFC-2?. My tuner always tell me to buy a dsm link or aem system but i'm comfortable with what I have and using what I have for now, plus i never listen so he just tunes my car with what I have. So what is better to give me more power, a dsm chip or a SAFC-2 or they are the same?, also with the chips do they read out over 300hp if you dyno the cars after with them installed?
As you can see, i'm just looking for the best way to make more power without buying a dsm link or aem management system.

Please start a thread on this so that other people can help you too. By PMing me, it seems to me as if you are in a big hurry. Slow down a little and learn what you need to before rushing into anything and wasting money. Anyways here's my thoughts;

You will be limited by the B16G turbo and 525cc injectors before you are limited by the SAFC 2. If you plan on sticking with the SAFC, a chip really isn't going to make a huge difference better in the tune when you're only using 525cc injectors.

Although harder to do, a chip can get you to the same power levels as DSMlink, since it is basically doing the same things inside the same ECU. However, with DSMlink you can precisely tune it and datalog your runs all at once and by yourself without paying a tuner and for time on the dyno.

A chip will always give you a more precise tune than you can get with an SAFC, as long as the tuner can get some feedback from you by way of datalogs and can perfect the tune on a re-burn (which are only $20). The SAFC cannot control timing, so choosing the right parts to match the fuel you'll be using and the optimum timing advance for that fuel is paramount to making big numbers with an SAFC.

Since you're debating between paying someone to tune with your SAFC and buying a chip, I would say that you should consider buying the chip. Then do your own fine tuning with the SAFC, a logger and a WBO2 after you do a little more research on tuning with the SAFC2.

Anything else I can help with just ask.
-Z.

You are so right, I should slow down. Just wanted to get my car out and running to its best again. I posted it in the newbie section as you said, hopefully it will get alot of feedback.
Thanks

Thanks for making a thread out of it. I don't mind helping anyone by PM, but I think it would be to your benefit to make your questions known to everyone.

 

[silver bullit]

Do you plan on drag racing or auto x?

 

[boosted86]

safc, is better (in my opinion) than a chip(i.e dsmchips, hotchips. etc) soley to the fact that you have more control of the car. if you are 100% sure that you know what you are doing with afc; then stick with that. if you doubt your abilty even just a little, go with a chip. ultimately, dsmlink is a far better choice(and cheaper in long run) because it basically offers a tunnig tool,and logging tool in one. with an afc you are required to purchase a logger seperatly....

 

[supa89]

Do you plan on drag racing or auto x?

I plan on drag racing

 

[tsitalon03]

safc, is better (in my opinion) than a chip(i.e dsmchips, hotchips. etc) soley to the fact that you have more control of the car. if you are 100% sure that you know what you are doing with afc; then stick with that. if you doubt your abilty even just a little, go with a chip. ultimately, dsmlink is a far better choice(and cheaper in long run) because it basically offers a tunnig tool,and logging tool in one. with an afc you are required to purchase a logger seperatly....

False...safc is NOT better than a keydiver chip. The keydiver chip has way more features such as: 2 step stutter box....better timing maps for 93 octane.....factory boost gauge converted into knock sum gauge, just to name a few. But when they are used together you can get some very good results.

 

[supa89]

False...safc is NOT better than a keydiver chip. The keydiver chip has way more features such as: 2 step stutter box....better timing maps for 93 octane.....factory boost gauge converted into knock sum gauge, just to name a few. But when they are used together you can get some very good results.

So i'm guessing here that it would be a good combo for the two of them, safc-2 an chip?, also i thought once the chip has been programmed you cant change anything with the safc-2 unless you re-send it back to do the changes

 

[rarson]

Let me see if I understand this correctly. You ignore the guy who actually tunes your car, yet you want the opinion of random internet people?

You remind me a lot of a guy I used to know. He would always ask me for advice and then completely ignore me, and then come to me for troubleshooting when the shit I told him not to buy wasn't working well. All the while not understanding the fact that I told him not to buy that stuff was either because I knew it was crap or because I had no experience using it myself.

So honestly, I think it's pretty safe to say that you're going to do what you want regardless of anyone else's input. But I wish you luck regardless.

My advice is to go with DSMLink. There's a reason why your tuner is recommending it.

 

[matt98eclipse]

I just recieved my stage 3 keydiiver chip about a week ago and i love it! Definently worth the money.

 

[BigSorn]

I still think that dsmlink is the way to go for tuning.

$514, you can't beat that.

 

[supa89]

Let me see if I understand this correctly. You ignore the guy who actually tunes your car, yet you want the opinion of random internet people?

You remind me a lot of a guy I used to know. He would always ask me for advice and then completely ignore me, and then come to me for troubleshooting when the shit I told him not to buy wasn't working well. All the while not understanding the fact that I told him not to buy that stuff was either because I knew it was crap or because I had no experience using it myself.

So honestly, I think it's pretty safe to say that you're going to do what you want regardless of anyone else's input. But I wish you luck regardless.

My advice is to go with DSMLink. There's a reason why your tuner is recommending it.

Is there a problem if I use the chip if i dont have enough $$ to get the dsm link right away?, Since you are not buying it for me, I think I can go on the WORLD WIDE WEB an ask about something that suits my pocket.

 

[tsitalon03]

Either route you take (keydiver, link), you'll get good results. The only difference is the link has more adjustablility for a better tune. Now if your like me....who doesnt want to do all that damn tuning...just get a chip and go.....already tuned for your specs but not 100 percent perfect like link. jus my $.02

 

[rarson]

Is there a problem if I use the chip if dont have enough $$ to get the dsm link right away?, Since you are not buying it for me, I think I can go on the WORLD WIDE WEB an ask about something that suits my pocket.

That sounds exactly like something he would say! Dude, it's your money, I'm not about to try to tell you what to do with your money. But you brought it up on the forum, don't blame me for adding my $.02 when you explicitly asked for it.

If you're planning on getting DSMLink down the road, then why would you spend the money on something else? That guy I knew didn't want to spend the cash on DSMLink either, so he bought a SAFC-2. He spent at least a year screwing around with it and trying to get his car running well, only to get frustrated and buy a DSMLink.

Not saying that the AFC isn't good for what it does, but why spend more money than you have to?

 

[supa89]

That sounds exactly like something he would say! Dude, it's your money, I'm not about to try to tell you what to do with your money. But you brought it up on the forum, don't blame me for adding my $.02 when you explicitly asked for it.

If you're planning on getting DSMLink down the road, then why would you spend the money on something else? That guy I knew didn't want to spend the cash on DSMLink either, so he bought a SAFC-2. He spent at least a year screwing around with it and trying to get his car running well, only to get frustrated and buy a DSMLink.

Not saying that the AFC isn't good for what it does, but why spend more money than you have to?

I get you, I will be saving up for the dsm link just need a proper substitute.

 

[rarson]

Well, I think you already have it with the SAFC-2. That should hold you off until you get DSMLink. I had an old 5-knob AFC until I got DSMLink. Worked great (but I gained quite a bit with DSMLink).

 

[Jst4Cyl]

Let me see if I understand this correctly. You ignore the guy who actually tunes your car, yet you want the opinion of random internet people?

You remind me a lot of a guy I used to know. He would always ask me for advice and then completely ignore me, and then come to me for troubleshooting when the shit I told him not to buy wasn't working well. All the while not understanding the fact that I told him not to buy that stuff was either because I knew it was crap or because I had no experience using it myself.

So honestly, I think it's pretty safe to say that you're going to do what you want regardless of anyone else's input. But I wish you luck regardless.

My advice is to go with DSMLink. There's a reason why your tuner is recommending it.

Aggervating isn't it? I have several friends that are new to DSM's and when they ask my advice and then I give it they want to go fast for cheaper than what it takes. I keep telling a friend of mine of the basics that he needs and he still doesn't listen.

But hey what do I now I'm just a Honda owner, O wait no I'm not ! ! !

 

[supa89]

Aggervating isn't it? I have several friends that are new to DSM's and when they ask my advice and then I give it they want to go fast for cheaper than what it takes. I keep telling a friend of mine of the basics that he needs and he still doesn't listen.

But hey what do I now I'm just a Honda owner, O wait no I'm not ! ! !

It AGGRAVATES me to see poeple cant spell "Aggervating", I think your AGGRAVATING yourself. Next time ad to the thread like rarson did...If something AGGRAVATES you or is AGGRAVATING YOU simply dont bother to reply. Leave the thread for people who are willing to assist in any way possible. The time you took to write a response you could of helped someone else with a problem they was having.

 

[DGajre777]

Let me see if I understand this correctly. You ignore the guy who actually tunes your car, yet you want the opinion of random internet people?

My advice is to go with DSMLink. There's a reason why your tuner is recommending it.

I don't see why people recommend someone with 525cc injectors to get DSMLink especially when someone says, "As you can see, i'm just looking for the best way to make more power without buying a dsm link or aem management system."

supa89 - I responded to your PM.

 

[1stGenTSi]

That sounds exactly like something he would say! Dude, it's your money, I'm not about to try to tell you what to do with your money. But you brought it up on the forum, don't blame me for adding my $.02 when you explicitly asked for it.

If you're planning on getting DSMLink down the road, then why would you spend the money on something else? That guy I knew didn't want to spend the cash on DSMLink either, so he bought a SAFC-2. He spent at least a year screwing around with it and trying to get his car running well, only to get frustrated and buy a DSMLink.

Not saying that the AFC isn't good for what it does, but why spend more money than you have to?

How about just giving the guy some decent advice instead of your "$.02" which was basically just ridiculing him about being like some stubborn guy you know. You did not help the OP at all nor did you even pay attention to what he was asking. Telling him hes like this guy you know and that he is ignoring his own tuner doesn't help. He obviously is not ignoring the guy that tunes his car, he just doesn't feel like spending the cash on Link or a standalone. Leave your pointless dribble somewhere else please.

As far as the original question I agree 100% with Delta448 and DGajre777; if you are just looking for a good, cheap, effective way to get the most power out of your setup you don't need Link. With 525's and a big16 you should have no trouble simply using what you have (get a cheap palm, build a cable, and download mmcd though). Now if you do plan on going bigger in the near future then link or a chip may be a good investment. I'd say get a cheap logger and a wideband and save your $$$.

 

[supa89]

Thanks for understanding what I was looking for in my thread..

 

[Killa_dsm]

I have both keydrive chip and a S-AFC. I must say that Jeff over at dsmchips is very helpful and the chips are tuned very well. I only use the S-AFC for fine tuning and let the chip do the rest. If your not looking ot spend a a lot of money and dont want to bother with tuning I would definitely recommend the chip. And if you do upgrade to bigger injectors it only costs $20 to have another chip made, and it will be at your door in 2 days.

Hope my $.02 helps.

 

[MY1GDSM]

False...safc is NOT better than a keydiver chip. The keydiver chip has way more features such as: 2 step stutter box....better timing maps for 93 octane.....factory boost gauge converted into knock sum gauge, just to name a few. But when they are used together you can get some very good results.

+1
Plus You can't go to as large Injector with a SAFC alone, because of the timing advance you will get from changing the airflow that much
But Like 1st gen tsi Said with only 525's your not going to run into that problem like if you were going to run bigger ones
But my Advice is to get
Larger injectors AND a Chip From The Keydiver Less work Tuning
Go big and you Don't have to Buy Again...IMHO
KEYDIVER Chips - FIC Fuel Injectors

 

[DGajre777]

I think we are just confusing the OP. The chip will get adjustments as close as possible, but a SAFC (or even a MAFT) is needed to fine tune it.

Yes, the chip offers more stuff like a stutterbox. You can also get a custom fuel map (like running 11.5:1 air/fuel ratio on pump gas) which can't be done on a SAFC without a wideband.

In short, is a chip better than a SAFC on the current setup with 525cc injectors? If you use the chip by itself - No, because you can't fine tune it. If it use the chip with the SAFC - Yes.

Anyone heard of AndyMoratis? He is a wiseman who is no longer active on this site, but he used to run a 50trim with a chip alone without SAFC. He had to send the chip back to Jeff several times to change his fuel and timing maps to be able to use it without an SAFC.

If you plan on upgrading your turbo and getting 750+ cc injectors, you can get the chip and fine tune with the SAFC with the help of a logger. DSMLink combines all 3 of these.