Solid SILVER spark plugs??

[avefenix]

Recently in my search i noticed NOLOGY has created a SOLID SILVER CORE SPARK PLUG, evidently not one with just a tip of silver but a complete plug..I searched these forums and came up with no answers so ill ask all my fellow dsmers

HAS anyone ever used these, it is somewhat a newer product and if so how hot is this melting point comparitive to iridium...if you are running 30 psi boost the gap would be significantly lower im sure

just wanting some answers and input here

 

[ManticSHadow]

Trialed and true NGKs everytime.

 

[DSM1G90]

Anyone fell for those horrible "Pulstar" POS plugs?

 

[ramsack]

Anyone fell for those horrible "Pulstar" POS plugs?

I try to warn people against that kind of garbage, or anything with more than one electrode, and usually get flamed for it.

 

[DSM1G90]

..like I had a 1989 Dodge Caravan with the 6G72 (3.0L) V6 motor in it.

Ran Autolite 63's in that thing forever, but suddenly one day, a wild and nasty hair up crawled up where the sun doesn't shine in trying BOSCH Platinum +4 plugs. Thus, bought six of them and shoved them in to see if the advertisments were right.

Mileage dropped considerably, rougher idle and other irregularities were the results.

Out they came and went back to the '63's within a month and got back to where I belong.

That was money wasted for sure ... and got rid of that wild hair for good.

Have to admit one thing: Autolite 63 and Japan - including Mitsu-were in "kahoots" together, for this one plug size could go into almost any size of import motor since it met their specs for aftermarket plug usage.

-live and learn ... DSM

 

[avefenix]

i simply wish to see how it will perform under higher boost...compared to my current plugs...i dont mind spending the money but as time goes on i believe there are some things worth trying, that may or may not have been made better , time goes on and if i can advance the quality for my dsm in any way possible, im going to do it....live learn and hope for progression not regression

 

[sciondan]

Go ahead and buy them, they are not a bad plug thats going to hurt mileage or performance. Mine are still in my truck as a matter of fact. Put them in when they first came out a few years ago. Still getting good gas mileage. Still feel they are over priced but its your money. I should pull one out just to see how its holding up.

 

[DSM1G90]

I pulled an IR our of our KIA with the 2.4L (looks like a 4G64 block all the way, but with a DOHC sitting on top) with 34k on them and still looks very new.

Thing I'm just wondering about, with some users that like to try IR's in their turbo setup, if NGK builds a non projected IR plug....

 

[bryanwheat]

i simply wish to see how it will perform under higher boost...compared to my current plugs...i dont mind spending the money but as time goes on i believe there are some things worth trying, that may or may not have been made better , time goes on and if i can advance the quality for my dsm in any way possible, im going to do it....live learn and hope for progression not regression

Standard copper core plugs work for everyone else, why do you think that your car needs something else? If it won't run good with copper plugs than there is a problem somewhere else.

 

[avefenix]

it runs fine....but im looking for the strongest spark i can get....so im doing test and tune is all....when you know something works many stick to it and just arent comfortable with change, i can understand that, however sometimes there are some things that can be an amazing change but when no one is willing to give a chance no one ever really knows..i really only drive my car a few days a year, its my baby and i want the absolute best for it and if its not the best for sure ill let everyone know...i just wish to take the step

 

[bryanwheat]

it runs fine....but im looking for the strongest spark i can get....so im doing test and tune is all....when you know something works many stick to it and just arent comfortable with change, i can understand that, however sometimes there are some things that can be an amazing change but when no one is willing to give a chance no one ever really knows..i really only drive my car a few days a year, its my baby and i want the absolute best for it and if its not the best for sure ill let everyone know...i just wish to take the step

You will be wasting money on these plugs. Listen to the people who know what they are talking about. What is the point of starting a thread in the first place if you aren't going to listen to advise. You will gain NOTHING whatsoever with these plugs. If the car isn't cutting out than your spark is perfectly fine.

 

[avefenix]

thank you for your input, the purpose of the thread is the most combustion and what is best....you can have a great running car and inside not have complete combustion and continue to lose a small amount of power through this method and you will never know it unless you test it...the o2 sensor helps in making the accurate fuel to air data the computer uses and there is an allowable amount of fuel to pass through uncombusted that is acceptable to manufacturers standards...but im just saying because im sure everyone in this place has modified their vehicle in some way so....test and tune....

i already run ngk and they run great but i want a stronger spark and thats the purpose of this thread to see if anyone has tried these plugs honestly with a high boost vehicle...not trying to argue with anyone just wanting honest advice and i have listened to what everyone has said...

 

[bryanwheat]

You don't understand the physics here. You WILL NOT gain any horsepower with these plugs, nothing at all. If you aren't blowing out spark than you need nothing else. Do you understand that guys are making 1000+ horsepower on copper plugs?

 

[DSM1G90]

Complete combustion would be to use LP fuels - no dino base fuels at all .... or go electric.

Yet, I see where this is going to: In the early 80's Datsun experimented with dual sparkplug ignition on their 4cyl motors- all SOHC motors.

One plug - the one next to the intake valve fired first, and in a millisecond, the 2nd plug - the one next to the exh valve fired. The 2nd plug fired was to supposed to catch what remaining mixture that the first one didn't catch.

Even Mitsu had their MCA-JET system with the 3rd valve setup in the standard two valve head - a valve the size of a nail head that would work with the INT valve, that let in straight air so the mixture would swirl an be more mixed for complete combustion. (I had a 4G37 with this "Cyclone" - third valve setup .. gave out some interesting perforance and the emissions were nice an low..).

To really get close to a complete combustion status is to run the system on the lean side, if possible. But, in actuality, we still need the 14.7:1 A/F ratio to make things work in balance.

Thus, not a hotter spark is needed, for a spark is a spark-gonna ignite no matter what is needed, but a multiple sparks setup to really ignite the broad area of the mixture at once...and can't do that with a domed head setup...you would need the old "Flattop" head design with valves in the block to do this.

-DSM

 

[avefenix]

thanx for the input....i remember a friend of mine talking about what he called the third valve that was smaller than a dime, its been good to see what i could learn here...ill stay put where i am unless i wake up with a wild hair to try something new...

 

[DSM1G90]

Which would be horrible due to the very low BTU that alcohol produces when used in a non turbo operation ... be like using "white gas", which burns up valves in a horrible quick.

Have to put a ROOTS on that 4G63 to really have some fun...

 

[4G63LOVE]

i searched for this forum thread because i thought there might be some good information but this is ridiculous. this is worthless information. if you run more boost then run a colder plug. Mitsubishi wouldnt recommend running NGK's if they werent what was best for the motor. Who cares about gold or silver and how well they conduct electricity. I wanted to see if someone knew if i needed to go one step colder or two steps colder if i run 30psi with 8.5:1 does anyone know?

 

[Ozone302]

Ok everyone. Why do people run copper plugs? Because they offer better performance because copper is highly conductive. Thats why nobody who wants performance uses platinum or iridium. So if this is true then why would using a silver plug be stupid? It's the same idea as copper being better than plat or iridium. Stop being so stubborn and try something new instead of being close minded.

 

[DSM1G90]

I wanted to see if someone knew if i needed to go one step colder or two steps colder if i run 30psi with 8.5:1 does anyone know

This is really an unfair question since we really don't know the full details of your setup..and if we did, YOU'RE the only one to really need to find out which step to use. We can't give you that definite answer.

Thus, you begin with one step colder - like the "7" , run them for a while and if the insulator is blistered white, then you need to head to "8"- one more step colder. But if the "7" looks normal, then you would know that "8" would be too cold to use.

Simple enough for "Rock-and-Roll"?


Good luck - DSM

 

[bryanwheat]

Ok everyone. Why do people run copper plugs? Because they offer better performance because copper is highly conductive. Thats why nobody who wants performance uses platinum or iridium. So if this is true then why would using a silver plug be stupid? It's the same idea as copper being better than plat or iridium. Stop being so stubborn and try something new instead of being close minded.

Because the copper plug works PERFECT. It isn't about being close minded, it is about being experienced with these cars.

 

[ramsack]

Platinum and iridium plugs have a platinum tip. Then talking about copper plugs, it's the core conductor that's made out of copper, not the electrodes. Copper or silver as electrodes would only last seconds in an engine's combustion chamber. People don't like platinum tips for turbo applications because platinum is a catalyst and will cause knock. Iridium just burns and chips away, and a big enough piece can chip off to do some damage. The small tips of both of the previous metals heats up too much and is a hot spot, and the problem is made worse when it's platinum because hot platinum catalyses most chemical reactions.

A copper plug is all that's needed, and what these engines are designed for. No power is to be gained from a spark that already ignites the fuel.

 

[cliffkemp]

yes i agree silver is more conducive, which may play a great roll in higher boost apps than the cheaper plugs....

Actually they are a bad idea for just about any vehicle except for N/A diesels. The exhaust temperature in most normal cars that run on gas is around 1000 degrees F. When and engine is pushed, these temps can be around 1200 to 1600 degrees F and, this will cause silver to become very soft as it is already a soft metal...much softer than copper. Copper's melting point is nearly 2000 degrees but, since copper is a good conductor as well, it is oxidized and harded to increase strength when used for a sparkplug.

This process increases its melting point to above 2000F (reference from welding as CuO2 has a much higher heat resistance depending on the O2 level and if it has been work hardened). Silver melts much lower and deforms easily even at temps below 1000F.

In a nutshell, it is high-priced junk for our use.

In saying that, silver mixed with other metals and oxidized and hardened may prove to be something useful but, the process is expensive and is nominal over CU plugs. Even Platinum is going to be less used as the benefits are less since CU can be combined with so many metals so easily. Plating tips is more of a gimmic and iridium is still good for endurance as it is heat resistance and strong but, not as conductive and will always be expensive. CU alloy plugs will always be the best bang for the buck.

My .02 and some facts as well

it runs fine....but im looking for the strongest spark i can get....so im doing test and tune is all....when you know something works many stick to it and just arent comfortable with change, i can understand that, however sometimes there are some things that can be an amazing change but when no one is willing to give a chance no one ever really knows..i really only drive my car a few days a year, its my baby and i want the absolute best for it and if its not the best for sure ill let everyone know...i just wish to take the step

If you want a stronger spark, tow a transformer. Seriously, a strong spark is not going to give any more hp as long as it sparks enough to light the mixture. The only advantage to a 'stronger' spark is that it is less likely to get blown out at higher pressures. So, if your car is running all the way to redline and not sputtering, your current system is fine. These plugs are not going to give you a stronger spark. That is not how it works. The coils determine this and simply using silver is not going make enough difference (conductively speaking) to give you an edge at all if your current plugs are firing.

I have had this discussion on my rx8. As long as your current system is firing to produce combustion, you will not 'gain' 1 single hp by going to X plug with Y contents in the plug. Only, and I mean ONLY, if your current system is not firing as it should, you can 'RESTORE' LOST hp by redoing your ignition system so that it is firing as it should.

Point is still the same in that these plugs will do nothing for any of our cars unless there was a problem to begin with. If current plugs are not firing, replace and regap til they do or you may have a failing coil and no sparkplug change is going to fix that or a failing plug wire(s).

 

[DSM1G90]

The only advantage to a 'stronger' spark is that it is less likely to get blown out at higher pressures.

Why you use non-projected plugs .. BR7ES, or similar.

With the spark at the very top of the chamber, it's less likely to get snuffed out by the outrageous compressions than the projected ones - where the spark is more in the middle of the chamber for stock compressions.

Is this "snuffing out the spark" syndrome, the whole reason why DSM users want hotter sparks ?

-DSM

 

[avefenix]

Which would be horrible due to the very low BTU that alcohol produces when used in a non turbo operation ... be like using "white gas", which burns up valves in a horrible quick.

Have to put a ROOTS on that 4G63 to really have some fun...

man i was just kidding id NEVER put alcohol in my ride...we did that to a 69 gto in carlisle iowa, the car ran on alcohol solely and took off on its debut appearance so hard it snapped the wheelie bars thanx to the genious ingenuity of a du***ss who shall remain unnamed for using what id like to call ebay quality savings direct from china

Why you use non-projected plugs .. BR7ES, or similar.

With the spark at the very top of the chamber, it's less likely to get snuffed out by the outrageous compressions than the projected ones - where the spark is more in the middle of the chamber for stock compressions.

Is this "snuffing out the spark" syndrome, the whole reason why DSM users want hotter sparks ?

-DSM

im using 8es on mine it has ran well so far but ive been reducing the gap which has helped a lot....i think youre right

Actually they are a bad idea for just about any vehicle except for N/A diesels. The exhaust temperature in most normal cars that run on gas is around 1000 degrees F. When and engine is pushed, these temps can be around 1200 to 1600 degrees F and, this will cause silver to become very soft as it is already a soft metal...much softer than copper. Copper's melting point is nearly 2000 degrees but, since copper is a good conductor as well, it is oxidized and harded to increase strength when used for a sparkplug.

This process increases its melting point to above 2000F (reference from welding as CuO2 has a much higher heat resistance depending on the O2 level and if it has been work hardened). Silver melts much lower and deforms easily even at temps below 1000F.

In a nutshell, it is high-priced junk for our use.

In saying that, silver mixed with other metals and oxidized and hardened may prove to be something useful but, the process is expensive and is nominal over CU plugs. Even Platinum is going to be less used as the benefits are less since CU can be combined with so many metals so easily. Plating tips is more of a gimmic and iridium is still good for endurance as it is heat resistance and strong but, not as conductive and will always be expensive. CU alloy plugs will always be the best bang for the buck.

My .02 and some facts as well



If you want a stronger spark, tow a transformer. Seriously, a strong spark is not going to give any more hp as long as it sparks enough to light the mixture. The only advantage to a 'stronger' spark is that it is less likely to get blown out at higher pressures. So, if your car is running all the way to redline and not sputtering, your current system is fine. These plugs are not going to give you a stronger spark. That is not how it works. The coils determine this and simply using silver is not going make enough difference (conductively speaking) to give you an edge at all if your current plugs are firing.

I have had this discussion on my rx8. As long as your current system is firing to produce combustion, you will not 'gain' 1 single hp by going to X plug with Y contents in the plug. Only, and I mean ONLY, if your current system is not firing as it should, you can 'RESTORE' LOST hp by redoing your ignition system so that it is firing as it should.

Point is still the same in that these plugs will do nothing for any of our cars unless there was a problem to begin with. If current plugs are not firing, replace and regap til they do or you may have a failing coil and no sparkplug change is going to fix that or a failing plug wire(s).

I finally got an in depth answer, thank you...i understand however one thing i do know is i have managed to push my car to max boost redlining much higher than stock and since ive taken every precaution to keep an extremely ice cool engine ive managed to be able to keep it under 1050 max, however i have designed my setup and fabricated the radiator with the fans in push mode to allow for my next upgrade which is much much larger so ill take this advice because once that turbo is installed i know i can kiss the 1050 max ive ever seen goodbye...
you earned my respect on this answer and thank you, points earned...

 

[DSM1G90]

Have to wonder on the "RX8" thing since those rotaries uses two plugs, one above the other and one is hot and the other is colder along with being flat headed plugs due to the apex seals on the rotors goes right over the front of them.

A totally different operation than the piston variety.

But true: cure the root of the problem, instead of putting a "band-aid" over the problem to cure it.

 

[cliffkemp]

Why you use non-projected plugs .. BR7ES, or similar.

With the spark at the very top of the chamber, it's less likely to get snuffed out by the outrageous compressions than the projected ones - where the spark is more in the middle of the chamber for stock compressions.

Is this "snuffing out the spark" syndrome, the whole reason why DSM users want hotter sparks ?

-DSM

My point is that a silver core will do nothing. Sparks dont actually get 'blown' out more so as they never make the jump due to insufficient voltage. That has everything to do with the coil and not the plug. Simply shortening the gap will mean that the coils will have to require less voltage to arc. As the gap increases, voltage increases to make the gap but, at a certain point, you need more voltage to make the jump. Depending on pressure and temperature, the stock coil may or may not make that jump at higher rpms due to dwell time. Silver is not going to make enough of a difference because it does not conduct electricity much better than copper. The 'part' to change to get a 'hotter' spark is the coil. Since a coil is just a transformer, I made it a joke.

I do not want to get into physics about this as I could write a small book. My point is, silver plugs are a waste of money. No plug will ever give you more hp. It is that simple.

Have to wonder on the "RX8" thing since those rotaries uses two plugs, one above the other and one is hot and the other is colder along with being flat headed plugs due to the apex seals on the rotors goes right over the front of them.

A totally different operation than the piston variety.

But true: cure the root of the problem, instead of putting a "band-aid" over the problem to cure it.

It is true we use different plugs. The cure for the rotary is to use better coils and not plugs. We use iridium plugs and the reason for 2 is to help with combustion just as dodge did with the hemi of the 60s. Rotaries can run on one plug but better with 2 and, the 787 LeMans winner used 3 per rotor to fire even better due to the dynamics of the rotary itself. It has such a long sweep area, 2 plugs are needed as there is not really a center like you have with a piston engine. It is complicated but I know you know what I am saying.

man i was just kidding id NEVER put alcohol in my ride...we did that to a 69 gto in carlisle iowa, the car ran on alcohol solely and took off on its debut appearance so hard it snapped the wheelie bars thanx to the genious ingenuity of a du***ss who shall remain unnamed for using what id like to call ebay quality savings direct from china




im using 8es on mine it has ran well so far but ive been reducing the gap which has helped a lot....i think youre right



I finally got an in depth answer, thank you...i understand however one thing i do know is i have managed to push my car to max boost redlining much higher than stock and since ive taken every precaution to keep an extremely ice cool engine ive managed to be able to keep it under 1050 max, however i have designed my setup and fabricated the radiator with the fans in push mode to allow for my next upgrade which is much much larger so ill take this advice because once that turbo is installed i know i can kiss the 1050 max ive ever seen goodbye...
you earned my respect on this answer and thank you, points earned...

glad I could help. Hope everything goes well with your car as well.