So, I snapped my timing belt last weekend at a local dsm meet and have video & a Q.

[90gst_sean]

I am uploading video of the damage as I type... Do yourself a favor, and turn off the volume.

# Timing belt snapped is confirmed
# Valve cover off - 2 followers are loose and sitting in head.
# 6 other followers appear to be loose, but still sitting on valves.

Q- should I go ahead and take the head off, or investigate further with it on; to not waist my mls head gasket.
Q- Info on compression testing a damaged head
Q- Info on n/t heads and testing it before I install it.
Q- I heard of people reusing their mls gaskets if you torque them down a little more. Thoughts?

I have a non turbo head that looks to be in good condition I could put to use (cams are numbered 05 r4 & 15 9).

The bad part is the head I just damaged has fresh seals and guides last winter.

The good thing is, I held off on a tranny rebuild to go to the meet I just broke the car at; so... it was going under the knife this weekend any way. That gives me time to do the timing belt and head fix rite. I have a little cash to spend. I already paid $1K toward the tranny; but things will still be tight. I'm thinking Kevlar for the belt and ??? for the head.

Any suggestions as to my next step and possible use of the other head would be great.

I'll need to research the process of pressure / compression testing the head in this condition. I will do that now.

Thanks; Sean.
<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i217.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid217.photobucket.com/albums/cc33/seansean26/MVI_0198.flv">

 

[Ravenous]

I put a n/t head on mine, just changed out the cams and all was good.

 

[90gst_sean]

upload in taking for ever...

If I was to use the non turbo head, should have it pressure tested at a shop first? Seems like a good idea.

I guess my biggest question at this point is, should I go ahead and remover the head from the car. I was hoping not to if there was no damage. This has been the best head gasket seal I've ever had. Noting the cam followers being knocked off; would it be safe to say I bent some valves?

 

[talon187]

when was the last time you changed the water pump and tensior? might want to think about that while your there along with arps and a mitsu 4 layer metal headgasket to...

 

[90gst_sean]

when was the last time you changed the water pump and tensior? might want to think about that while your there along with arps and a mitsu 4 layer metal headgasket to...

Its all under 15K. The car has had all the trimmings. The belt was a bad decision on my part. It was a cheep-o and I'll be paying for that now! Wont make that choice again. The belt was 10K old and from partsdino.com $80 kit w/ pulleys.

I just slapped a new tensioner on 300 miles ago and think that may have played a role in over tightening the belt.

 

[90gst_sean]

Video link at top.

 

[95CarbonEclipse]

I'm curious as to why the T-belt failed. I know you mentioned in another post that you thought it was because of the cheap belt, but under 15k miles is pretty extreme. I would definitely take a good look at everything down there... possibly your balance shaft went bad?

 

[90gst_sean]

PROFILE


Fresh engine and no balance shafts.

But thanks for the input though! Any other ideas. Im thinking I overtightened it with the new tensioner. That and the week belt. I've had this engine out so many times I cant keep them straight. But last last ... summer ... I replaced the belt and did not do the tensioner; so this summer when I swap the engine to my awd I put a new tensioner in it....

I'm really kicking myself right now, but I noticed that the timing belt looked weird. It lost its finish. It could have been from running it with the old tensioner for to long?

95CarbonEclipse; Its funny to see people I ran into at the meet. Unless im miss taken, and you didnt drive to Lynnwood; I took video of your car and told my budy, it was my favorite out of all of ours. anyhow... back to me.

Any info on the questions listed in post one?

 

[95CarbonEclipse]

Lynnwood? Is that were Alderwood Mall is? I showed up to the Penny's parking lot late... I met up with everyone while they were eating. Then I met at the old Mervyn's with everyone and headed to Alki where I passed you on the on ramp to W. Seattle Bridge. Anywho, thanks for the complement. You'll have to come over to the East side when I put together a summer meet over here.

Back on topic...

 

[90gst_sean]

what are your thoughts on reusing mitsu mls head gaskets? w/ arp studs...

And sense the followers have been knocked off, do you think it is hopeless to assume Ill be able to fix this with out removing the head.

Keep in mind I will be pulling the tranny tomorrow ether way.

 

[95CarbonEclipse]

I'm gonna let someone else take this. After checking your profile, along with your pics... it's clear that you know WAY more about the actual engine then I ever will. I'll be asking you for advice when it's time to pull my motor.

 

[90gst_sean]

I will be more than happy to help when the time comes.

 

[jhague]

I would say the head has to come off regardless. Since the belt snapped you are gonna have bent valves. I wouldn't reccomend reusing the headgasket either, a new one would be cheap insurance for the bottom end. You don't want to take a chance on coolant getting into your oil and causing a spun bearing. Just my 2 cents.

 

[BUCK]

That Head is DEAD - throw your old MLS gasket in the shitcan - Swap Cams & put on the new Head - Your Balance Shafts may have seized to pop that T/Belt so have you done a BSE?????

 

[95CarbonEclipse]

The BS was already removed. (see post #8)

 

[silver bullit]

Just curious as why are the lifters and rockers lose, when my crank pulley broke and sucked the alternator belt into the timing i had 2 that where completely off like the above pic, i also had a few lifters that callapsed that slide up and sowe like there was no oil in them or like i just bleed the lifters.

I had maybe 4 or 5 rockers that where loose like the above, but what i wanna know what causes that?

 

[xavier3jr]

From my expirience the rockser being loose are bent valves. I've had 1 timeing belt snap on a 420a and another jump timeing. Both had bent valves and both had rockers moveing around on the bent valves. Your gana have to pull the head and replaces the head gasket, swap out the heads. And its acording to what RPM you were at when you did it you might have a few holes in a piston or 2.

 

[dsmfreak20]

yea you can use the non-turbo head. the only thing you'll have to do is swap the cams and theres a little allen head plug where your oil feed line goes so you'll have to remove that as well. i used a non-turbo head for mine as well. good luck man.

 

[silver bullit]

I got lucky when the crank pulley broke and sucked the alternator belt into the timing belt i was lucky cause i was doing a 20 psi 2nd gear pull on my fitty trim turbo and the crank pulley started to come loose i thought i lost rod.

So thinking quickly i killed the engine i turned it off before it messed anything up. The alternator belt and crank pulley somehow stopped the motor from skipping teeth but when i looked everything thing over i started the car not thinking to check the timing belt, i bent all 8 intake valves on my car cranking it with the starter.

This was the damage:

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But like it was said depending on the rpm you where at it will depend how bad it is

 

[silver bullit]

yea you can use the non-turbo head. the only thing you'll have to do is swap the cams and theres a little allen head plug where your oil feed line goes so you'll have to remove that as well. i used a non-turbo head for mine as well. good luck man.

Where is this allen key you talk of pics?

 

[xavier3jr]

When my timeing belt broke i was takeing off from a stop sighn i was at 1500-2000 rpms. I bent 8 intake and 2 exhaust valves. thease motors have close to zero clearance when it comes to this.

 

[klipschaudio]

Do leakdown test to confirm that you bent valves.

 

[project_tsi]

Your rockers are loose because your valves are bent, and not closing all the way.

 

[xdxoxuxgx]

You'll definitely have bent vales, you should probably get a Mitsu 4 layer head gasket, and you can re-use the ARP head studs. I feel your pain, I just bent my valves, not because the timing belt snapped but because the tensioner came loose and the belt skipped teeth. Good luck with everything.

 

[90gst_sean]

Thanks for the info guys.

Update- I will have the head out soon as I get coffee in me and my ass back out side to my tent. I got it all ready to come off last night, but hung it up on the power steering and didnt have the patience; so called it a night. It shouldnt take 15 minutes and I'll have it on the bench ready to really see whats really going on.

(JUST ONE MANS PAROGITIVE, SO LETS LEAVE IT AT THAT) but I -WILL- be reusing my mls head gasket this time round. (NO NEED TO CONVINCE ME OTHER WISE, SO PLEASE) I have looked long and hard at this topic, and there is plenty discussion about it. I am convinced that 90% of the opponents of its reusall, are so- based solely on personal opinion, and NOT experience. I have decided to see for myself and that will be that.

I'll be using copper gasket spray on both side assuming the gasket it in A+ condition once removed.

BUCK, just so you know. I do not dismiss your advice lightly. You were a big help to me back when I couldn't have told you what "MLS" meant.