Small 16g or Big 16g? Which should I chose to easily run 13's? Opinion are needed!!!!

[-DSM2NR-]

My goal is to run mid to low 13's but I'm stuck on deciding whether to with a small 16g or a big 16g. I don't plan on getting anything bigger. I hope you guys can help me out. Any input is appritiated.

 

[keymaster]

From what I understand, though the Big 16g is actually a "bigger" turbo, the small 16g is much more efficient. I'm running one right now, and once I can figure out what's wrong with the damn car, I'll be tuning it at 21 psi.

 

[5150DSM]

With the appropriate supporting mods a S16G will run 13's all day.(and night) Pushed a bit you can also take a S16G into the 12's, plus it's great on the street, spools like a stocker and has a little more up top. That being said, the B16G or better yet an EIII-16G will potentially take you a lot further. There are people running 11's on both and they can drive their cars home from the track.
Aloha

 

[-DSM2NR-]

I'm not really planning on going faster than 13's since I got fwd (traction, traction, blah blah, traction.....etc). So which one would be a better choice to run, lets say........low 13's (13.1-13.4)?

 

[-DSM2NR-]

Lets say I run a small 16g and a big 16g both on 15psi with no fuel mods, with just an intake, 2.5"-3" downpipe and 3" exhaust.

Which one will do better in the quarter mile?

I really need some input since I'm deciding on either getting a s16g or a b16g. There's a guy that's selling them both for nearly the same price. I want to pick the one that's best suited for me and will allow me to get into 13's with no problems.

Someone help me out here........

 

[Boost Demon]

It's my understanding that if you go with a S16g and minimal mods you get a little better response due to the wheel being a great match for that size housing. If you go with the B16g you'll need pretty much all the supporting mods to get the most out of it, so it really depends on what your going to do. Probably the most important thing to do is get the numbers off of the housing (to verify it is what it is) and also check for/ask bout shaft play, a little side to side isn't bad, in and out is not good, also if the wheel is making contact with the housing while it rotates you don't want it. Both will work for ya, I know I liked my ported and clipped B16g, but I had all the supporting mods minus a clutch/flywheel and I could scoot by a new EVO , good luck .

 

[andymoraitis]

If you ran a small or a big 16G at equivalent boost pressure, there would be minimal difference in track times. The small 16G will spool more quickly, while the Big16G will flow slighty more on the top end. As far as the small needing less supporting mods, that's not true. Both need equivalent fuel support to run at more than 15 psi. Being FWD and traction limited, you will always run into the issue of how hard these turbos hit and both of them hit hard when they spool in 1st and 2nd gear.

Also, when sizing out your supporting mods, you'll need a 190 pump, 550cc injectors and some form of fuel control. I think AFC's are garbage, but the correction factor with 550's shouldn't be bad enough to make your timing a nightmare. I also highly recommend a pocketlogger so you can log third gear pulls and look for dips in timing that would indicate knock.

If you want to know how much boost you can run on basic mods, here's how I did mine (be careful as not all motors are the same and what worked for me may not be right for you).

Stock pump/injectors: 15 psi
190 pump/stock injectors: 17 psi
190 pump/550cc injectors/fuel control: 24psi

Pick whichever one is in better condition and make sure to check them for shaft play. You'd be happy with either.

Hope that helps,

Andy

 

[-DSM2NR-]

I just went and took a look at the turbos. They're both in exellent condition. I know 1 is a s16g since it's number is 520 and the other is a b16g number 420.

Which should I chose? I already mentioned my goals. I'm thinking of getting the small 16g since I heard good things about it. Do you guys agree with my decision?

 

[femmeDSM]

I just went and took a look at the turbos. They're both in exellent condition. I know 1 is a s16g since it's number is 520 and the other is a b16g number 420.

Which should I chose? I already mentioned my goals. I'm thinking of getting the small 16g since I heard good things about it. Do you guys agree with my decision?

I would go for the small 16g if I was in your position. My goals for my car are a bit different than yours (and mine is AWD), so I personally am doing a full EVOIII setup. But for your car, a small 16 would get you where you want to go, and maybe even leave a little room for "expansion".

Let us know how it turns out
With proper supporting mods to the fuel system, you should have no problem getting your car into the 13s, or even possibly high 12s. What supporting mods are you planning? You may have mentioned this already, but I missed it.

 

[-DSM2NR-]

How much hp is the small 16g able to put out anyways? I've heard people say 300hp and others saying 370hp???


My supporting mods would be:
-Either 550s injectors or 650s
-190 walbro fuel pump
-SAFC II
-datalogger
-FMIC with 2.5" piping
-Greddy Type-S
and there's some other little things that I can't think of right

I've also got a EVO III manifold and ported 2g o2 ready to install once the turbo gets on. Will these help me in any way?

 

[femmeDSM]

How much hp is the small 16g able to put out anyways? I've heard people say 300hp and others saying 370hp???


My supporting mods would be:
-Either 550s injectors or 650s
-190 walbro fuel pump
-SAFC II
-datalogger
-FMIC with 2.5" piping
-Greddy Type-S
and there's some other little things that I can't think of right

I've also got a EVO III manifold and ported 2g o2 ready to install once the turbo gets on. Will these help me in any way?

That looks like a good setup, especially the EVOIII manifold -- those are great. The only thing I'm wondering is, why not go for the Walbro 255 and an AFPR, since you are already getting the SAFC and injectors? The Walbro 190 is okay for what you want, but if you think ahead and can think of ANY reason that you might want to upgrade later down the road, you will have to change out that 190 again -- better to get the 255/AFPR combo now and save yourself the hassle in my opinion.
Also, 650 injectors might not be a good combo with the 190. 550s would be okay, but 650s are pushing it. Again, if you go for the 255/AFPR, the 650s will be awesome.

Good luck

 

[andymoraitis]

I agree with all of the above except for the recommendation to go with a 255 and an AFPR. While I can understand the need to have an upgrade path, a 190 will supply enough fuel to run a DSM into the 11's. Rather than add an additional link in the tuning chain, keep it simple and as worry free as possible.

As far as power output, the S16G can run around 340-350 properly tuned. For injectors, stay with the 550's since the AFC will make timing soar with a set of 650's. Other than that, the setup looks great and you should have no issues making good power and meeting your goals. If you have the opportunity to have the car tuned on a dyno, that would be even better. Your supporting mods look great and the ported parts will certainly reduce backpressure and help your flow.

Good luck!

Andy

 

[femmeDSM]

I agree with all of the above except for the recommendation to go with a 255 and an AFPR. While I can understand the need to have an upgrade path, a 190 will supply enough fuel to run a DSM into the 11's. Rather than add an additional link in the tuning chain, keep it simple and as worry free as possible.

Good luck!

Andy

True. Just trying to give him a heads up in case he wants to go sub-11's in the future. Since I know modding DSMs is an addiction, I always try to think ahead -- I started out with a 300hp goal, but I scrapped that pretty fast once I started buying parts. haha.

I run a 190 myself (with an AFPR), and plan on keeping this setup until I max out the current pump. So far it's been great, and I'm sure it will get me into the low 12s. But I know I will have to upgrade again eventually.

 

[andymoraitis]

I hear you! I started out with a goal of high 12's, hit the mid 12's and am now looking for low 12's with no AFC or FMIC. Cams are next and I think that'll get me there (I hope).

Great job on this thread BTW,

Andy

 

[femmeDSM]

I hear you! I started out with a goal of high 12's, hit the mid 12's and am now looking for low 12's with no AFC or FMIC. Cams are next and I think that'll get me there (I hope).

Great job on this thread BTW,

Andy

Thanks
Cams are the most recent addition to my Wish List at this point....I'm picking up a pair of HKS adjustable cam gears from a friend who is getting out of DSMs, and figured I shouldn't let them go to waste! .

I think with all of my other planned mods, the cams will put me at right about 400hp. . Too bad I can't install most of it yet -- got to get the car in perfect running condition first, and all that boring stuff ()

 

[andymoraitis]

Sounds killer! Keep me posted on how it goes and let's whack those low 12's.

Andy

 

[femmeDSM]

Sounds killer! Keep me posted on how it goes and let's whack those low 12's.

Andy

Will do! Good luck w/ your setup, as well

We should start a club for people who originally had 13-second goals, but are now running 11's-12's due to Mod Addiction. (oh, wait, that would pretty much include everyone on this site. haha)....

 

[Boost Demon]

I'm not saying the s16g needs less mods to support it, I just mean that while your going through the upgrade process the S16g will respond a little better early on. I would suggest the S16g, by the time you have it fully supported you'll probably be able to tune it and will also be looking to better what you have, by way of tuning or turbo wise.

 

[-DSM2NR-]

ok, thx guys You made my decision easier. I'll go with the small 16g

 

[femmeDSM]

have fun with it! It's a good investment

 

[buclao2]

big 16g turbo will give you boost lag which is better if you are running a FWD in the quarter mile, less torque = more traction (lower rpms)

small 16g turbo will give you a spool similar to stock t25's and will give you more wheel spin off the line since you're FWD.

So if you want more traction, go with the turbo with more turbo lag (big 16g)

I was just wondering what is the exact or estimate of what RPM will the small or big 16g hit full boost.

 

[andymoraitis]

big 16g turbo will give you boost lag which is better if you are running a FWD in the quarter mile, less torque = more traction (lower rpms)

small 16g turbo will give you a spool similar to stock t25's and will give you more wheel spin off the line since you're FWD.

So if you want more traction, go with the turbo with more turbo lag (big 16g)

I was just wondering what is the exact or estimate of what RPM will the small or big 16g hit full boost.

No offense, but boost lag? I'm at 26psi by 3400 in third with a Big 16G. The 200 RPM quicker spool that the Small 16G has wouldn't make a bit of difference since both turbos will hit extremely hard. The traction issue has to be dealt with by using slicks, not by introducing a turbo that lags if it's more than he's looking for. Another item that would certainly make a difference is a dual stage boost controller to set a low boost to get off the line and a higher boost level in third when the car will hook without wheel spin.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[femmeDSM]

Exactly what he said ^^^
I have driven/run both small and large 16G turbos, and haven't experienced any *noticeable* difference in "boost lag". Like Andy said, by 3250-3500 rpm or so, both had hit full boost and were good to go. This info comes from a FWD car, as well (although 1g, but no difference). Andy, do you notice any difference in AWD? I'm waiting to install my EVOIII 16, and want to know if I should be expecting the same results as I had in my 91 GST.

 

[andymoraitis]

Lenora,

I don't get any different feeling in the AWD at all, although it's more violent since there isn't as much traction loss. What you'll love about the AWD is that as boost hits, especially big boost (24+), you'll get the sensation that you're standing on top of a mountain with cold air blowing.....Whoops, let me get out of York Peppermint Patty mode. Actually, you'll get the sensation that your head is about to be ripped off and land in the back seat, especially from a 6000RPM slip launch in 1st. You'll love it, but mind the head rushes.

You must drop me a line when you get the 1G all sorted out and hit your first launch. You'll be hooked.

Andy

 

[femmeDSM]

Lenora,

I don't get any different feeling in the AWD at all, although it's more violent since there isn't as much traction loss. What you'll love about the AWD is that as boost hits, especially big boost (24+), you'll get the sensation that you're standing on top of a mountain with cold air blowing.....Whoops, let me get out of York Peppermint Patty mode. Actually, you'll get the sensation that your head is about to be ripped off and land in the back seat, especially from a 6000RPM slip launch in 1st. You'll love it, but mind the head rushes.

You must drop me a line when you get the 1G all sorted out and hit your first launch. You'll be hooked.

Andy

Sounds awesome, I totally can't wait I should have everything installed and ready to Dyno tune by mid-March (that's the goal, at least). I loved my FWD, but I can already tell the difference w/ my new GSX -- and until I got her, she had been neglected for almost 2 years, and hadn't had a good tune in about 6K miles. Poor thing -- all she needed was a loving DSM home. haha. I'm sure she will treat me right once I show her some TLC.
Can't wait for those 6000 rpm launches @ 20+ psi