simple knock,idc,and timing questions

[1993gsxtalon]

Ok so i did some little 2nd gear pulls tonight with maybe 13psi and a clutch thats pretty much toast(for real). Here is some numbers i got.
Knock sum -3
Injector duty cycle-103
Timing? (diff page on logger)

So my question is whats a safe knock,injector duty cycle, and timing advance for these mods( no threads show any info for my setup, if so please direct me)?

fmic
all free mods
bov
downpipe
2.5 exhaust no cat
logger
tubular mani
14b
stock fuel system
mbc-set at prob 15-16psi
"ported head"
ported o2 ho

 

[Lonnie gandee]

And your high fuel trim doesnt change with throttle position. If your car is at operating temp, you check "kinda sorta" get a rough idea of what your timing is. Just check your timing advance at idle 750 rpms... Should be a number between 7*-10*....

 

[1993gsxtalon]

Ok i checked the timing and it was off a little so i adjusted it right now.
It now idles at 7-10
But i still get 45 degrees of timing at WOT
and i still get around 107% idc at WOT
????????? any input

 

[steve]

I don't believe for a second that your really getting 45* of advance at WOT.

Now would be a good time to download MMCd (1.8g) and see what it thinks the timing is.

 

[1993gsxtalon]

I have mmcd on my logger but i dont use it i use some thing called data logger where you pick 4 things to watch.Ill try and see if i can figure out mmcd on the way home.

 

[97gstjosh]

Ok lets crack this ****ing problem shall we
1. Please update your profile so I dont have to go back to page 1 to view your mods.
2.Do you have a wideband? Im saying no because you didnt list it.
3.What is your A/F Ratio at during WOT?
4.Do you have anything to tune all this with( AFC, S-AFC, DSMLink, etc.)
5.All these mods without tuning is going to cause problems. They are increasing your lbs/min.
6.Please get a log on here ASAP
7.Theres very little you can do without something to tune with.
8.Are all your boost leaks gone?
9.Try these threads Id like to do all the looking but I cant. This is your part right here
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/search.php?searchid=3849016

Let me know the answers to all these questions.

 

[1993gsxtalon]

OK 97 josh ill answer your questions first then list some more info.
No wideband or any way of tuning except logger and mbc.
a/f ratio at wot is o2-r 0.93v and o2-f 3.49v with an aftermarket o2 sensor
I cant figure out how to get a log on here.(just got logger)
And yes boost leaks are all gone.

GET THIS, used mmcd program tonight and got some diff numbers
rmp 6500
boost 16psi
knock 4
o2-r 0.93v
o2-f 3.49v
tps 100%
map 2.77bar
tima 35 degrees
injdc 98.4 %

Those numbers are the peak of like 5 diff runs

 

[97gstjosh]

Ok here we go.
1.Thank you for updating your profile
2.You need a wideband Get an AEM I have one and I love it
3.You need something to tune with You should be looking into this
get an AFC for starters go to ebay they are cheap
4.Figure that logger out
5.Those are better numbers
Knock at 4 counts is ok
Your .93V equates to about an 11.5-11.6 so that needs to go down to about .96V
which is low 11s like 11.1 A/F Ratio. The only way to make that happens is to invest
in some kind of tuning equipment.
eBay Motors: APEXi S-AFC Eclipse Talon Supra Honda Toyota 3000GT (item 180198000317 end time Dec-27-07 13:28:27 PST)
Like this cheap

 

[97gstjosh]

Theres not much else anyone can say to help you with this situation.
keep logging and buy an Apexi AFC for beginning.
I wish there was more your saying that all boost leaks are gone, and everytime you log the numbers seem to be going down. If you have anymore questions feel free to ask man

 

[steve]

There are several parameters MMCd displays that don't mean anything on a DSM. O2-F and MAP along with everything on page 4 to start with. No need to log them

I'm sure that the 35* of timing was not at WOT but while cruising or right after you left off the gas.

Spend some time logging your car while your sitting still, driving around town and doing pulls to get up to speed on what's normal. The number are far more trustworthy that the software you were using before.

Josh is a much better man than I if he can tell you that your O2 reading (O2-R) of .93V equates to about an 11.5-11.6 A/F Ratio. I'd have to see the long term fuel trims and the IDC that went along with that reading to get anything useful from it.

 

[50trimmed1g]

I'm also sure 45* timing wot will net a lot more than just 4 counts of knock!! If your boost leak is under control, make sure your timing is at 5* btdc!

 

[97gstjosh]

I'm sure that the 35* of timing was not at WOT but while cruising or right after you left off the gas.

Spend some time logging your car while your sitting still, driving around town and doing pulls to get up to speed on what's normal. The number are far more trustworthy that the software you were using before.

Josh is a much better man than I if he can tell you that your O2 reading (O2-R) of .93V equates to about an 11.5-11.6 A/F Ratio. I'd have to see the long term fuel trims and the IDC that went along with that reading to get anything useful from it.

Thank you but im sure YOUR a way better man thats why your a wiseman
I just happen to know thats what that equates to
Yes please do some logs and save them then if you cant put them on here please try to write it out. It will help a great deal.
There still is no way your hitting 35* timing thats still 10-11* more than it should be.
Also please tell me your Voltage from 2,000 RPMs to like 6500 RPMs and I will be able to tell you more about what your A/F Ratio looks like

 

[1993gsxtalon]

Thanks bunches 97josh and wiseman.
I had all the numbers at peak because i cant see them on that little screen while im driving so yes the 35* of timing was prob after i let off the gas b/c that was the peak on like 6 runs

I know I know...I need something to tune with.
next mods right after clutch job this week are 190 and afc for now,maybe even a wideband if i can afford it.

But is my car safe to drive like this until i can get some fuel mods b/c no knock and lower idc's?

 

[97gstjosh]

Thanks bunches 97josh and wiseman.
I had all the numbers at peak because i cant see them on that little screen while im driving so yes the 35* of timing was prob after i let off the gas b/c that was the peak on like 6 runs

I know I know...I need something to tune with.
next mods right after clutch job this week are 190 and afc for now,maybe even a wideband if i can afford it.

But is my car safe to drive like this until i can get some fuel mods b/c no knock and lower idc's?

Well since that log was prob. after you let off the gas then we really dont know what your knock and IDCs are at during WOT. I would say just drive it normal to be safe since nobody knows. Then once you get the AFC and 190 pump then go back to testing and make sure you can get a log from like 2,000 RPMs to 6,500 RPMs somehow.
I want to see all the o2V from there up and your timing numbers.
Also get this with your 190 pump
Forced Performance: FP Fuel Pump Relay Kit

Try for a wideband they are def. a necessity in the long run

 

[1993gsxtalon]

Well ya i was planning on doing the rewire too.
I guess i will keep posted in a couple of weeks then,after clutch and fuel mods.

I cant say thank you enough guys.

 

[Lonnie gandee]

OK 97 josh ill answer your questions first then list some more info.
No wideband or any way of tuning except logger and mbc.
a/f ratio at wot is o2-r 0.93v and o2-f 3.49v with an aftermarket o2 sensor
I cant figure out how to get a log on here.(just got logger)
And yes boost leaks are all gone.

GET THIS, used mmcd program tonight and got some diff numbers
rmp 6500
boost 16psi
knock 4
o2-r 0.93v
o2-f 3.49v
tps 100%
map 2.77bar
tima 35 degrees
injdc 98.4 %

Those numbers are the peak of like 5 diff runs

First, there's no way , could have looked down too late to notice the tima, was 35*, cause at the same time you posted, your tps was 100%.... Your lost....

Second... If your running 16lbs, and are seeing a .93v o2 reading, than that is rich as ####...I aim for no more than .80. Thats on a fwd, with a stock sidemount... ANd a big16

By the way .850 volts is 11.0:1 a/f.... Which is rich in my book.... So i can only imagine what .93 is... Probably like...10.5:1a/f.....

Your 02f reading is useless on a 1g, you dont have one an 02f... Thats for 2g's

I'm sure your fine if you said your high trim was 115%...Just keep premium in it, which I'm sure you do... If you get to lean, you'll hit fuel cut anyway, which from the sounds of it, you havent done yet..

Post a whole log... From 4ooo rpm, to redline... List rpm, knock, tima, o2r.

 

[Lonnie gandee]

And everyone here with a logger, (including myself) shouldd have realized, that 35* is the kind of number you see on deceleration..... I think 40-45 is the highest it will ever read.... Normally..

And also if you did see 4 counts of knock at top end, you should turn the boost down 1-2 psi, until u get it figured out, to be on the safe side....

 

[1993gsxtalon]

First, there's no way , could have looked down too late to notice the tima, was 35*, cause at the same time you posted, your tps was 100%.... Your lost....

Second... If your running 16lbs, and are seeing a .93v o2 reading, than that is rich as ####...I aim for no more than .80. Thats on a fwd, with a stock sidemount... ANd a big16

By the way .850 volts is 11.0:1 a/f.... Which is rich in my book.... So i can only imagine what .93 is... Probably like...10.5:1a/f.....

Your 02f reading is useless on a 1g, you dont have one an 02f... Thats for 2g's

I'm sure your fine if you said your high trim was 115%...Just keep premium in it, which I'm sure you do... If you get to lean, you'll hit fuel cut anyway, which from the sounds of it, you havent done yet..

Post a whole log... From 4ooo rpm, to redline... List rpm, knock, tima, o2r.

Woah Woah there is a misunderstanding
all the numbers from the logs are peak from like the whole drive so the a/f could have been at idle and the tps was at peak, because i didnt separate the logs
sorry for the misunderstanding
BTW 4 counts of knock isnt safe?
And now that my timing is adjusted i get like anywhere from -2* to 6* on idle
and for the whole log post, i cant cause i have to ease on it all the way up in 3rd or else the clutch with give completely(i cant just floor it)

 

[97gstjosh]

Just keep us updated
4 counts of knock is not horrible