Set up question?please help

[tsi2fly1991]

I just need help with my setup I was woundering what else i need to be able to hit 350-to 400 whp iknow it depends on the tune but i was wondering if there is any other parts that i need to get a good tune and try to hit my hp goal Any help will help please let me know if i need anything else and will a stock 4g63 put out 350-400whp safely on a good tune

buschur 2.5 downpipe, 3 catback exhuast , 2.5'' testpipe sbr ported manifold, tial 38mm wastegate ,walbro 255 fuel pump, RC 750cc injectors ,Aeromotive fpr ,maft blow tru set up, dsmlink,sbr ported tdo6h 20g turbo, greddy profec b boost controller,extreme turbo front mount intercooler , 2.5'' intercooler piping k&n air filter,blitz bov,apexi boost & egt gauge jdm 6 BOLT Tre Transmission awd converted to fwd baer track big brake kit, eibach pro kit lowering springs, KYB AGX 8 wayshocks,phantrip,18inch giovana niito neogen tires 225 40 18, short throw shifter act 2600 clutch

thanks jeremy

 

[fourreGsixty3]

Well I have to say this for one. What's the point of doing a 3" cat-back if your DP and test pipe are going to be 2.5" your exhaust set up will only flow as fast as your smallest pieces. I dint know what your current modds are if any,but port your IM or get an aftermarket one...all depends on what you want, the 1G intake mani, is great for midrange, but if your planning on spending a lot of time from 4k and up, then get something like a Magnus Motorsports IM, and a good deal would be send your TB to ffwdconnection.com, and have them recondition it and bore it out 63mm. A Hard intake pipe like a dejon tool. You shouldnt have to do these but comp cams 101200, on comp cams website they say these will net you 35 hp approx., then cam gears from AEM or HKS. Piston's and rods would be good too, just to stay on the safe side, but these last 4 items arn't nessisary long as you have a good tune because the 4G63 has been known to take around 400hp or more ff stock internals. Oh yeah and do you have a logger for the DSMLink? And port out your O2 housing or you could get SBRs O2 housing witt external dump tube and WG already with it.Also a little weight reduction wouldnt hurt...take like a/c out, spare tire, jack...all that stuff DSMers dont use, haha. Oh yeah, if you dont have a radiator I would get one want to keep that engine cool.
EDIT*** Flywheel, will post more if I think of them...

 

[gixrman]

You have everything you need, just maybe a WB o2 so you can log it on your DSMlink. You should be able to reach 350 on pump with a good tune.

 

[tsi2fly1991]

How do you add a wbo2 to dsmlink do you get the reading on your logs?

 

[larsrya8]

cam gears from AEM or HKS.

No

Oh yeah and do you have a logger for the DSMLink?

Huh? DSMLink is a tuning tool and a logger...

Oh yeah, if you dont have a radiator I would get one want to keep that engine cool.

If your cooling system isn't broken, don't fix it. The stock radiator does a fine job of cooling the engine while it's making 400HP.

a good deal would be send your TB to ffwdconnection.com, and have them recondition it and bore it out 63mm.

You don't need a bigger TB. The 60mm is big enough.

Also a little weight reduction wouldnt hurt...take like a/c out, spare tire, jack...all that stuff DSMers dont use, haha.

Doing a weight reduction won't help you make more power, just accelerate faster. But before you do a weight reduction I would recommend selling those 18-inch wheels. You're not going to get nearly enough traction to put 350HP down with that tiny sidewall. On the plus side, burnouts will be almost too easy.

I like the suggestion for cams, although you probably will be able to hit 350 without them. A Magnus SMIM would definitely help too, but the 1G intake manifold flows plenty to accomplish your goals.

 

[larsrya8]

How do you add a wbo2 to dsmlink do you get the reading on your logs?

You tap the wideband's output signal into one of the inputs of the ECU that you don't normally use, such as the MDP sensor input. You then have to setup DSMLink to read that sensor's input as a wideband O2. More specific instructions are probably available on the DSMLink forums.

 

[sweet97]

Yeah you already have the makings of at least a 350HP car. I would do a compression test and how many miles are on the motor? Do you have an oil pressure gauge? If not then get a gauge with hose from your local mechanic and remove the sending unit on the oil filter housing and check the oil pressure at idle and then see how much it rises at every extra 1000 rpm's. Let us know the comression readings across all 4 cylinders, mileage on the motor and oil pressure. That makes determining the condition of the stock motor as to whether it will withstand the extra power for long. Mark
PS: If you do for cams I would recommend Crower stage 3's. Same price as the 200's or a little more but will make more power from the guys I have heard from using them. Stock springs should be good till 7500rpm's. mark

 

[fourreGsixty3]

I would recomend the crower stage 3s also but its a pretty rough idle if its going to be a high powered DD. As for larsrya8 the DSMLink is the software, and as far as the "logger" I was refering to a palm or laptop so that he could tune it. Sorry if I didnt refer to it in the correct terms and made it confusing. As for the cam gears, that would be a YES, but it depends on if he gets cams, if he doesnt get cams then he doesnt need them, if he gets HKS 272s or 264s then he doesnt need them but if he goes with Crower's or Comps then it would be better to get them. with boring and reconditioning it it will give him better throttle response so thats wouldnt hurt him, I agree no nessisary, but its cheap enough to have done. Also as far as the weight reduction I know it wont add HP, but if your adding HP then why not take out unneeded weight. Yes, the stock cooling system will work for his 400HP goals but I guarantee that it will break some how about 3 months after he reaches his 400HP goal, by the way not trying to be negative just realistic, considering its a DSM, JK guys.

 

[sweet97]

Guys are just not familiar with Crowers. I have the stage 4's and the idle is very streetable for a daily driver. I have had Comp 200's, didn't like them at all, they DO need adjustable gears to get the most from them. They are basically copies of the HKS 272's which I also had and they were a lot more cam than the Comps and do not need to be degreed. I changed them out for ther Crower 415's/stage 4's. The idle is a touch lopier than the 272's but not bad at all and can be tuned to be less lopey if that is what someone wanted. I can idle them at 950 rpm's. I read where a guy with a 2.3 and HKS 272's changed to the stage 3 crowers and added 26HP. I don't know what my stage 4's added but my traps have gone from an average of 113mph top an average of 120 though I did also add a JM SMIM. JM SMIM is supposed to add .4 less in the 1/4 so my Crowers must have added another 30hp at least over the 272's as I am still tuning and with only a MAF-T.
We need to know the info I asked for earlier to see if his motor will handle the cams or even his 350-400hp goal reasonably safe with the stock block. mark

 

[larsrya8]

As for the cam gears, that would be a YES, but it depends on if he gets cams, if he doesnt get cams then he doesnt need them, if he gets HKS 272s or 264s then he doesnt need them but if he goes with Crower's or Comps then it would be better to get them.

I just did some quick research on Slowboy's site... prices might be different elsewhere. Crower cams are about $525 and the gears are around $180. That's over $700... but HKS's aren't much better in price. If I were to get cams, I would go with Forced Performance. Similar gains, but much cheaper.

Yes, the stock cooling system will work for his 400HP goals but I guarantee that it will break some how about 3 months after he reaches his 400HP goal

Well... I still disagree, but I'm without first-hand knowledge. I've just never seen this as being a huge problem. Some have problems after installing a FMIC, but after either flushing the system, replacing a leaking radiator or lines, or adding some air ducting, the problems seem to go away. So while I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm just saying that usually the last thing that people with overheating problems are told to do is to go out and buy a Fluidyne. They're usually told to perform maintenance to bring the cooling system back up to spec, and once they do the problems go away. Unless you're going to be going WOT the whole time (rally racing, Le Mans, etc.) the stock cooling system should be able to keep everything under control just fine as long as there's nothing wrong with it.

But anyway, to reiterate; You have all the modifications necessary to hit 350HP. All you need now is to start tuning.

 

[sweet97]

Don't waste money on cam gears for Crowers as they are NOT needed. I have crower 415's that are bigger spec wise than the HKS 272's I took out. FYI: HKS have 213* duration at .050" lift and lift at the valve is .406/.386. Crowers 415's have 218*/216* duration and lifts are .425/.416. Extra lift helps across the RPM range. The extra duration helps the motor pull harder at higher rpm's. After adding the Crowers and a JM SMIM I began to experience torque steer with my AWD!
Yes, you certainly have a set-up that will make the power you are looking for and maybe more with the proper fuel.
I have a small FMIC but cooling with 2 slimline fans is not a problem. Having an external oil cooler helps that quite a bit also. Mark

 

[dsm-onster]

I agree w/ larsrya8. I've run an 18g and FP2Xs, 8500 rpm rev limit, frontmount, and dsmlink. (recorded 40+ lbs/min airflow). Plus other upgrades... I have not dynoed w/ the 18g. But I ran 30 psi for a while. Is this +360whp? probably. zero cooling issues w/ stock system.

Listen to Sweet about the cams. He certainly is in the know. He's helped me out recently witha few high rev and hot cam questions.

You have enough to reach your goal. Be patient and meticulous, and get a good tune.

One thing to mention... you have a 6-bolt. So you have the bigger, stronger head bolts. So you'll be ok with high boost. Maybe. BUT, I streached my 90 6-bot head bolts when I lifted my head a while back when I hit a string of detonation in a tuning session. This was on 22 psi and a small 16g... Go for it, but have in the back of your mind that you may need a new head gasket soon. Or, get ARP head studs and swap them in and be done w/ it. I've boosted to 30 psi daily with an oem HG and arp head studs. I've heard of atleast one guy on here who has swapped his bolts for studs w/out removing the head or replacing the HG. Search for this if your interested.

 

[larsrya8]

Don't waste money on cam gears for Crowers as they are NOT needed. I have crower 415's that are bigger spec wise than the HKS 272's I took out.

When I was thinking he should go with the FP cams I was thinking of smog... unless you can pass smog with the 415's? The lower level FP cams should allow you to pass (like the 264/264's or 264/272's do), not to mention they don't seem to need the gears like the lower level Crower's do which make them more affordable.

Unless smog isn't an issue?

 

[sweet97]

FP cams are made by Comp cams. I had a set of comp 200's I bought due to price. They were lame. I lost 2" of vacuum and felt no power what-so-ever. I nwas so dissapointed that I sent them to Comp thinking I may have gotten the 100's bu mistake. Nope they were the 200's. Chris at Comp told me they are better when degreed.
Then when I got my Buschur motor built I mentioned the Comps and David said to throw them into the trash. Of course I simply sold them and then that guy sold them.
You can apply that to the FP's anyway you wish.
David Buschur said he would not degree nthe Comp cams. He said he drops the HKS cams in and has never had an issue and does not degree them even in the stage 3 motor. The only other cam he sells is Crowers. Crower used to sell regrinds but have changed and are using new cores. The stage 3's were changed in place of a guys HKS 272's in his 2.3 stroker and he picked up 26HP on the dyno. If you go to the Crower site, www.crower.com and click on the Mitsu cams you will find a link to the stage 3's that were run in a Buschur motor and made 550HP at I believe 28psi with a BR580 turbo. I can't answer for emissions for any state other than NY and it is not part of my inspection. The HKS cams are great and well proven but it's possible their lobe shape is a bit outdated. The Crowers are a new design simply because they have not been out as long as the HKS cams. The FP cams are also very aggressive, the FP3's anyways, nicknamed "square lobe" cams. When I bought my Crowers through Slow Boy the guy I spoke to was running the FP4's in his 2.0 and I asked about the idle and he said something like "crappy".
Biglady112 here runs the 415's and he was an influence in my changing out the HKS 272's. With only a MAF-T for tuning I can get the idle really quite smooth. Usually I run it a bit on the "hairy" side!:>) The FP4's have 220* duration and right around .400" lift for both intake and exhaust. The Crowers with more lift/.425"-416" make power across the rpm range with lift. Of course my stage 4's come alive at 5000 when the Holset is also building it's boost towards 30psi. Like I said I had never felt torque steer with my AWD car before. I am sure the HKS cams are great. The comp 200's did not impress me at all. Personally I think the Crowers are a well kept secret but probably not for long. SBR did free shipping but there was an $8. handling charge bringing the total to $533.
I have simply posted what I know and have experienced. I am sure the FP's make good power but cannot compare them to something I have not used. Thanks, Mark

 

[dsm-onster]

Hey Sweet. Remember I run FP2Xs and I got reat results w/ them w/out degreeing. FP grinds that are done by Comp correct the need to dial them in by degreeing. My 18g at 15 psi w/ the FP2Xs felt like my 18g at 20 psi w/ the stock cams.

I did hear of the necessity to degree Comp grinds. and crower grinds... Only HKS and FP grinds by Comp have I heard different and/or never felt the need to degree. But everything I have is hearsay except for the FP grinds.

 

[sweet97]

Hey Sweet. Remember I run FP2Xs and I got reat results w/ them w/out degreeing. FP grinds that are done by Comp correct the need to dial them in by degreeing. My 18g at 15 psi w/ the FP2Xs felt like my 18g at 20 psi w/ the stock cams.

I did hear of the necessity to degree Comp grinds. and crower grinds... Only HKS and FP grinds by Comp have I heard different and/or never felt the need to degree. But everything I have is hearsay except for the FP grinds.

Matt I tried to keep my reply to what I had experience with. My association of Comp and FP may have been unnecessary. Obviously you have had a good response from the FP cams. I liked the HKS 272's and like the Crowers even better. I know of a guy who just got Comp 200's and likes them as they made his Big 16G run out of steam and it was not able to keep up with the Increased VE of the motor. Degreeing any set of cams probably helps but guys like the idea of just dropping them in and driving and I am one of those. My Crowers pull to 8500 and are still pulling but I have not had the car on a dyno and do not know where they really fall off hard and I am not confidant in Crower springs handling 9000rpm's without valve float. Even with my crude tuning I am getting 120mph traps with my Scanmaster with high 11's for et's. The Scanmaster gets it's data from the diagnostic port just like a logger or DSMlink so I consider it quite accurate. FFWDconnection.com has regrinds based on the HKS specs and they gaurantee them for 1 year so they may be a possibility for the cash consciense buyer. Mark

 

[dsm-onster]

Matt I tried to keep my reply to what I had experience with. My association of Comp and FP may have been unnecessary. Obviously you have had a good response from the FP cams. I liked the HKS 272's and like the Crowers even better. I know of a guy who just got Comp 200's and likes them as they made his Big 16G run out of steam and it was not able to keep up with the Increased VE of the motor. Degreeing any set of cams probably helps but guys like the idea of just dropping them in and driving and I am one of those. My Crowers pull to 8500 and are still pulling but I have not had the car on a dyno and do not know where they really fall off hard and I am not confidant in Crower springs handling 9000rpm's without valve float. Even with my crude tuning I am getting 120mph traps with my Scanmaster with high 11's for et's. The Scanmaster gets it's data from the diagnostic port just like a logger or DSMlink so I consider it quite accurate. FFWDconnection.com has regrinds based on the HKS specs and they gaurantee them for 1 year so they may be a possibility for the cash consciense buyer. Mark

Oh. I am not knocking what you said. I was just adding to it, more or less. Rememeber, You convinced me to go to the crower 415s if my FP2Xs don't give me what I need for my build this season . The Crower 415s get an A++ in my book based on your experience. I think not having to degree a cam set should deffinately be taken into consideration when any one but a dynoshop buys a set of cams.

 

[sweet97]

Never thought you were knocking Matt! I also agree your experience with the FP cams adds to the crediblity that they are drop in and run! I added the fact that it was Andy Moraitis who got the Comp 200's and they caused his big 16g to not keep up with the increased Volumetric Efficiency of the motor with the Comp 200's. My experience with the Comp 200's was not as successful but my motor was tired and that is what led me to get a Buschur motor. Then since a guy like Buschur, who builds motors for Shepherd, sells only HKS and Crowers says something also. Of course Buschur is not going to try FP cams since they are a competitor. So Matt your experience with the FP2X cams shows their ability to be used straight up also! I think when some guys get awful idles they either do not have the idle tuned the best or they have a cam off by half a tooth on the timing belt. mark

 

[dsm-onster]

Never thought you were knocking Matt! I also agree your experience with the FP cams adds to the crediblity that they are drop in and run! I added the fact that it was Andy Moraitis who got the Comp 200's and they caused his big 16g to not keep up with the increased Volumetric Efficiency of the motor with the Comp 200's. My experience with the Comp 200's was not as successful but my motor was tired and that is what led me to get a Buschur motor. Then since a guy like Buschur, who builds motors for Shepherd, sells only HKS and Crowers says something also. Of course Buschur is not going to try FP cams since they are a competitor. So Matt your experience with the FP2X cams shows their ability to be used straight up also! I think when some guys get awful idles they either do not have the idle tuned the best or they have a cam off by half a tooth on the timing belt. mark

Hey! a new DSM cliche: "Buschur knows best."

Yea. It would not make sense at all for Buscher to run FP stuff. HAHA! that didn't even register.