SAFC NEO trouble

[2g4me]

After tons of searching i cannot find an anser anywhere. I'm brand new to it but I got the SAFC NEO installed even after a lot of searching on just how to install it, but the car is running. I'm running RC 550's with EVOIII GT big 16G, 3" turbo back, Walbro 255. Now with the injectors being larger than stock, wouldnt that require decreasing the fuel on the NEO? Everyone keeps tellin me i should start out around -10 across the board, BUT my low setting on this thing its set at +42 at 1k just to get the car to run good and AFR's right, anything less than that it goes lean and eventually by about +35 it goes off the gauge (AEM UEGO) lean. Its hooked up and setup exactly as the instructions show from APEXi's website so i dont get it....Can i get some help here? Anyone familiar with this thing?

 

[tommywsmith]

Was the car running before the afc neo install

I don't know dsm's yet. Is the car maf or map

To answer you question's if the injectors were installed and the ecm remapped for the injector size then you should leave the afc at zero. Now the afr aem eugo reads 9 as rich 18.5 as lean. Unless u want the afc to correct idle throttle leave your throttle low setting about 50%. Make sure you calibrated wot. And make some runs with you have someone whatch the gauges. Even better would be if the afr was hooked up to a logger and logged rpm and afr's only. Gasoline likes 12.5 e85 likes 11 on the afr gauge. If your afr's are rich let's say 11.9 for gasoline at 4000 rpm then go into it and at the 4000 mark take some fuel out. Same works the other way if its lean then add fuel.

Side note. I set up my afc map so that rpm0 is 700 rpm1 is 4000. Since my motor never drops below 4000 when drag racing there's no need to worry about adjusting the lower range. From there I used a 250 rpm step to help better control my afr mapping.

 

[Boostinsideways]

Install is the same as S-AFC II aside from one extra power wire.

Apexi Super AFC For The Eclipse/EVO For tuning tips.

Make sure yours has been reflashed to support our style maf. There were some issues with the Neo with certain model numbers and the 2g dsm/evo MAF.

 

[4Lurker4]

If you're not sure about version, here's the important stuff to look for

http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showth...=213633&page=2 Post #17

If it has version 1.020 when it's on (check options list, should tell you the version) then you need to have it reflashed.

Also: NEO reprogramming criteria:
1. Using NEO on Karman sensor car (Mitsubishi and some Toyotas) (make sure the signal shows an infinity sign next to it when the neo is running and not just two bars)
2. Last five digits in the serial number is smaller than 13800
(sample serial number: AFC4 UN06-13726)
3. There is no Karman compatibility sticker on the back

 

[2g4me]

Was the car running before the afc neo install

I don't know dsm's yet. Is the car maf or map

To answer you question's if the injectors were installed and the ecm remapped for the injector size then you should leave the afc at zero. Now the afr aem eugo reads 9 as rich 18.5 as lean. Unless u want the afc to correct idle throttle leave your throttle low setting about 50%. Make sure you calibrated wot. And make some runs with you have someone whatch the gauges. Even better would be if the afr was hooked up to a logger and logged rpm and afr's only. Gasoline likes 12.5 e85 likes 11 on the afr gauge. If your afr's are rich let's say 11.9 for gasoline at 4000 rpm then go into it and at the 4000 mark take some fuel out. Same works the other way if its lean then add fuel.

Side note. I set up my afc map so that rpm0 is 700 rpm1 is 4000. Since my motor never drops below 4000 when drag racing there's no need to worry about adjusting the lower range. From there I used a 250 rpm step to help better control my afr mapping.

Yes the car ran fine before, boost controller hasnt changed and was boosting @ 16psi with the stock 450's and ran fine, 550's and the NEO and it wont go past 6psi and even then it hesitates to get there. I dont do a lot of drag racing with this car mostly city driving so my low setting are important here. The car runs ok out of boost but the afc has to be set real rich to run right even though my afr's are normal, once i go into boost it basically wants to die, I dont get it....

Install is the same as S-AFC II aside from one extra power wire.

Apexi Super AFC For The Eclipse/EVO For tuning tips.

Make sure yours has been reflashed to support our style maf. There were some issues with the Neo with certain model numbers and the 2g dsm/evo MAF.

Neo doesnt install the same as the afcII, a few wires are different, i learned this the hard way, installing it that way. Same wires on the harness but different wires on the afc. To elaborate, both input and output wires for the air signal are different...pink and orange on the afcII and black/white and brown/white on the neo. And the extra power wire is used. At least this is as per the install intructions from APEXi's website.

If you're not sure about version, here's the important stuff to look for

http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showth...=213633&page=2 Post #17

If it has version 1.020 when it's on (check options list, should tell you the version) then you need to have it reflashed.

Also: NEO reprogramming criteria:
1. Using NEO on Karman sensor car (Mitsubishi and some Toyotas) (make sure the signal shows an infinity sign next to it when the neo is running and not just two bars)
2. Last five digits in the serial number is smaller than 13800
(sample serial number: AFC4 UN06-13726)
3. There is no Karman compatibility sticker on the back

I'll have to look into this when i get home so thanks for that info.

If you're not sure about version, here's the important stuff to look for

http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showth...=213633&page=2 Post #17

If it has version 1.020 when it's on (check options list, should tell you the version) then you need to have it reflashed.

Also: NEO reprogramming criteria:
1. Using NEO on Karman sensor car (Mitsubishi and some Toyotas) (make sure the signal shows an infinity sign next to it when the neo is running and not just two bars)
2. Last five digits in the serial number is smaller than 13800
(sample serial number: AFC4 UN06-13726)
3. There is no Karman compatibility sticker on the back

So how do i update it and how much does that cost?

 

[4Lurker4]

You need to phone Apexi in California (Contact Us)

Give them a ring, go into the tech support. Ask for the Apexi Neo reflash form (they'll ask for your email and sent it that way). You fill it out, send it with the Neo to the address they give you. They pay return shipping and give you your Neo flashed with some little freebies.

Only cost to you is shipping it to them (since it was their error in not having done the coding right in the first place)

 

[2g4me]

You need to phone Apexi in California (Contact Us)

Give them a ring, go into the tech support. Ask for the Apexi Neo reflash form (they'll ask for your email and sent it that way). You fill it out, send it with the Neo to the address they give you. They pay return shipping and give you your Neo flashed with some little freebies.

Only cost to you is shipping it to them (since it was their error in not having done the coding right in the first place)

Ok i'll have to get on this then and get it taken care of so thanks again for that. Now just out of curiosity, what does the reflash involve, like whats all changed and what is corrected? I ask because and i'll try to be a little confusing as possible...

The issue im having right now is, I'm rinning 550's using stock ecu no flash, i'm having to go up +42 (adding fuel when i should be decreasing) across the board on the neo so the car runs ok, and the thing that confuses me is that before, i would have to decrease the fuel (about -14 same setup) on the neo which made sense having bigger injectors, so i dont know why im having to adjust it so high for now. Only difference was before i used the SAFCII instructions to install which used a few different wires on the NEO and my car refused to rev past 2-2500. Got the installation for the NEO from the site and it works right now just not the fuel adjustment, its damn near maxed out the opposite way just to run right, every RPM range is set at +42. Most places ive visited online as far as looking for a simple or base tune for this thing says for using 550's, a good base tune is about -14, the ecu will think im still running my stock injectors and the car should drive normal.....So im lost here?!?!

 

[ed1380]

They reflash the firmware inside the NEO. AKA the operating system that you see. It will also delete the tune that you currently have.

 

[4Lurker4]

Well if your version is wrong on it, it means it doesn't read the Karman signal correctly. This is used by the Ecu to measure the air coming in the intake. So, in theory, if it reads the info incorrectly it'll mess with the fuel needed for the air (as it doesn't read it correctly). Chances are that's why you are getting messed up values. They just replace the coding they did initially (which was wrong) and replace it with one compatible with the Karman signal, the unit itself is the same, just the software used.

This should give you an idea of the error caused in readings:
http://www.supercar-engineering.com/rubberducky/3S/Mods/TT/AFCNeo/index.html

 

[2g4me]

Well if your version is wrong on it, it means it doesn't read the Karman signal correctly. This is used by the Ecu to measure the air coming in the intake. So, in theory, if it reads the info incorrectly it'll mess with the fuel needed for the air (as it doesn't read it correctly). Chances are that's why you are getting messed up values. They just replace the coding they did initially (which was wrong) and replace it with one compatible with the Karman signal, the unit itself is the same, just the software used.

This should give you an idea of the error caused in readings:
Airflow Signal Output Problems with the AFC Neo

Well it does make sense but initially no, cause it was working correctly at first (the fuel portion) and i was adjusting accordingly, but now that its hooked up "corrctly" as per the instruction for the NEO and not he SAFCII, its doesnt work. All the tecknology in the world and ppl still cant make simple things right. You'd think they'd test their isht before puting it on the market, but instead they just make more work for themselves and their customers, thus also costing us more money.

 

[4Lurker4]

Well it does make sense but initially no, cause it was working correctly at first (the fuel portion) and i was adjusting accordingly, but now that its hooked up "corrctly" as per the instruction for the NEO and not he SAFCII, its doesnt work. All the tecknology in the world and ppl still cant make simple things right. You'd think they'd test their isht before puting it on the market, but instead they just make more work for themselves and their customers, thus also costing us more money.

Yuppers, to save you more of a headache, they only require the unit itself, not the extension. So I'd keep your connections as they are, unclip the extension and send the unit. It'll at least avoid you reconnecting/soldering all your wires back up. I went through the same deal a while back except had it shipped to them from Canada (more $$) so I feel your pain.

 

[phunny]

And so what im "probationary", who the **** cares, i been on this forum plenty long enough and i know enough to built my own GSX from scratch MYSELF and squeeze over 800hp with even a good bit of EBAY parts....sit on that one before you judge me, PRICK!!

Yes someone please "help me" and shed some light on this other peehole as well, i'm sure you'll be sucking on ## thumb as you wait, take some pics for us and feel free to post them!!

I think the main problem is you are trying to tune a 800hp monster with a SAFC...

 

[4Lurker4]

I think the main problem is you are trying to tune a 800hp monster with a SAFC...

Somehow, RC 550's with EVOIII GT big 16G doesn't quite rack up to 800hp... don't think that belongs on this topic.

 

[2g4me]

I think the main problem is you are trying to tune a 800hp monster with a SAFC...

Ha, totally different car dude, stay in your lane!

 

[4g63tc]

I think the main problem is you are trying to tune a 800hp monster with a SAFC...

 

[Boostinsideways]

Sorry, the wires are different colors, you still need to tap into the same pins, and there is an extra power wire. Or at least this was my experience when I removed the one that came with my car.

 

[2g4me]

Sorry, the wires are different colors, you still need to tap into the same pins, and there is an extra power wire. Or at least this was my experience when I removed the one that came with my car.

Its all good bro, its installed the right way now, its just not working the way its sposed to is all now which is weird because as far as changing the air maps, it was working fine, and now i have to almost max out the NEO adding fuel with bigger injectors for it to run right...which ISNT right. For now i'll just have to send this thing in to get it updated and go from there...

Thanks for the help though guys!