Safc neo please help!!

[Boosted DSM 32]

I just installed a neo on my 2g gsx and ever since it was hooked up the car runs terrible! The idle sounds bad and it wont rev past around 2500 rpm's and feels very boggy when revving it, i havnt driven it yet but i doubt it would even go up a hill! I have everything set to zero, set it to 4 cylinders and the right angle for the throttle, and did a closed throttle and wot setting.. what could be wrong i need my car to get to school and work tomorrow can anyone please help me?!?!

 

[bcjjones]

Did you change it to a Karman sensor?

 

[Boosted DSM 32]

Did you change it to a Karman sensor?

yes i did that everything is wired correctly the one thing is i dont believe i cut a wire in half and i was reading and that could possibly be the problem?

 

[bcjjones]

Im assuming you have a logger, Anything funky going on that could put you in the right direction?

 

[4Lurker4]

Main thing that come to mind is the version. Which version do you see when you go into the options menu (If memory serves me right, it's the last menu). It should be 1.104 if it's the latest version. Old versions weren't programmed correctly for our cars (since we run in Karman). They need to be reflashed by Apexi-USA if it's the old version to work properly (a free service).

Apex AFC Neo: Confirmed Programming Bug - Karman Function Doesn't Work - Page 4 - 3000GT/Stealth International Message Center

 

[Boosted DSM 32]

Main thing that come to mind is the version. Which version do you see when you go into the options menu (If memory serves me right, it's the last menu). It should be 1.104 if it's the latest version. Old versions weren't programmed correctly for our cars (since we run in Karman).

Im at work and cant check the version right now but it came off of a 93 talon tsi i know they have different ecu's tho

 

[bryanwheat]

yes i did that everything is wired correctly the one thing is i dont believe i cut a wire in half and i was reading and that could possibly be the problem?

Are you talking about the airflow signal wire that is supposed to be cut and have wires from the safc wired to each side?

 

[4Lurker4]

^^ That could be it. If it's the right version and you didn't cut the signal wire (the neo should be wired in series to that wire) than this might be your issue. The SAFC needs to be able to be in series so that it can "modify" the signal before sending it back to the ecu.

 

[Boosted DSM 32]

Are you talking about the airflow signal wire that is supposed to be cut and have wires from the safc wired to each side?

yes thats what im talking about i didnt know that it had to be done and i was asking a friend why it wasnt working and he asked if i cut that wire and wire the neo's wires into and i said no, so i believe that, that is my problem after work im gonna take care of that and see if it fixes my problem!

UPDATE: it wont let me select the karman mode, all the other modes if you click on it, it brings up another menu but when i click on karman it does nothing and doesnt allow me to go into another menu? I un hooked everything and the car runs just like it should so the afc is screwing with something and making it not function properly

 

[4Lurker4]

It shouldn't have a menu for Karman, you just need to select it. To make sure it's getting the signal you go into "sensor check" menu. It should show "UU" to show you it's reading the correct signal. If it isn't reading the Karman signal you'll see "_ _"

See page 39 of neo manual pdf free ebook download from www.apexi-usa.com

Also you can double check your wiring here:
http://www.apexi-usa.com/manuals/electronics/neo_diagram.pdf

 

[Boosted DSM 32]

It shouldn't have a menu for Karman, you just need to select it. To make sure it's getting the signal you go into "sensor check" menu. It should show "UU" to show you it's reading the correct signal. If it isn't reading the Karman signal you'll see "_ _"

See page 39 of neo manual pdf free ebook download from www.apexi-usa.com

Also you can double check your wiring here:
http://www.apexi-usa.com/manuals/electronics/neo_diagram.pdf

alright thanks alot for your time and help man im gonna look though all of this and give it a shot tomorrow or something and ill post about what happened! thanks again bro

 

[4Lurker4]

Did you end up getting it to work?

 

[Boosted DSM 32]

Did you end up getting it to work?

Sorry i just seen this but no i unhooked it and hooked it back and and still nothing, as soon as you unhook it and its back to stock it runs great i just gave up for now and unhooked it cause i need the car to get to school.

I even went up to one of my dsm friends house who installed many of the safc's and he was saying it wouldnt work because it needs updated or something like that?

 

[4Lurker4]

Ah, well make sure you re-read my post #5 on here, told you to check that first You can send it back to Apexi for the revision for free if it's not the right version.

 

[GSXTasy005]

My biggest annoyance is when people try to install/modify something without knowing what it is or how it works. If you don't know what you're doing then do more research, or let a professional (or at least a friend who knows what they're doing) do it for you. Sorry if I sound like I have an attitude, it's just that 3 people have diagnosed your issue and explained how to fix it yet you still say this:

i just gave up for now and unhooked it

This is a little annoying. You obviously did not hook it up correctly if you can just unhook it and the car runs. If hooked up correctly your car will REQUIRE that it is hooked up and powering on in order to run. Did you read the instructions or do any research before attempting the install? It sounds like you should have just paid your friend to do the installation, since he seemed to have a grasp about how you went wrong.

Are you talking about the airflow signal wire that is supposed to be cut and have wires from the safc wired to each side?

If it's the right version and you didn't cut the signal wire (the neo should be wired in series to that wire) than this might be your issue. The SAFC needs to be able to be in series so that it can "modify" the signal before sending it back to the ecu.

Also you can double check your wiring here:
http://www.apexi-usa.com/manuals/electronics/neo_diagram.pdf

That's 3 people who have explained how to fix your issue. Please read and understand advice when it's given to you.


OK, my rant is over. Onto the informational part of my post.

This is all speculation, since I can't see the car. But I think you hooked up the "KARMAN IN" and "KARMAN OUT" wires to the the same wire without cutting the wire in half. The AFC Neo needs full control over everything going on with that wire, so it needs to be cut and fed in one side of the AFC Neo, and out the other.

Stock setup:

MAF
|
ECU

AFC Neo setup:

MAF
|
| - KARMAN IN wire
AFC Neo
|- KARMAN OUT wire
|
ECU


Here is now I think you have it setup

MAF
|
|
|==AFC Neo
|
|
ECU

Here's what I think is happening:

1. The Karman sensor is sending the signal down the wire to the ECU lets say 2.3V just for the sake of using random numbers

2. The 2.3V is getting sent to the ECU AND the AFC Neo "KARMAN IN" wire

3. The AFC Neo is modifying the signal (adding more voltage, or possibly taking it away). Lets say it subtracts 0.3V giving us a value of 2V

4. the AFC Neo is sending the signal down it's "KARMAN OUT" wire. The 2V is then added to the 2.3V for a value of 4.3V instead of the 2.3V that the karman sensor is trying to give to the ECU.

5. The ECU is seeing 4.3V and adjusting the fuel mixture appropriately

 

[Boosted DSM 32]

When i mean that I unhooked it and it worked i mean that i unplugged all the wires, and put it all back to factory and completely took the neo out of the car then it ran good.

And as for hooking it up wrong, yes i belive something is hooked up wrong but not the entire unti and me and my dad spent hours trying to figure it out neither of us are electricians and he has no idea about these cars hes owned chevy since he got his first camaro at 16, and i didnt know what a 16g turbo was about6 months ago so were still learning trust me we have come along way in 6 months! haha so sorry for the ignorance in any of my posts

And when we had it installed the neo worked properly as it should reading throttle percentage, rpm's, volts everything like that it read properly the car just didnt run good with it installed which is why i believe that something was wired wrong..

And i didnt give up for good i just cannot have my car not running while we figure it out, i work 30 hrs a week and go to college full time so i really dont have all the time in the world to just look stuff up and work on the car all day its just a really slow process untill summer comes and im off school

But thanks for your positive part of the post that did help me understand the wiring a bit illl look it over with my dad when he gets home from work and maybe well give it another shot this weekend

 

[GSXTasy005]

what ever became of this? did you ever get it working?

 

[Boosted DSM 32]

No i took it to a friend that has installed the safc II's before and he said he was talking to a guy on apexi and he told me that i needed to update it, and then i talked to the big Dsm guy in my area and he said that it doesnt need updated i just didnt install it right, and in the next month after i get my wideband and fuel pump in hes going to install the neo and tune the car for $120 so thats a really good deal i figured since busher racing wanted 250 to install it and 200/hr for labor.. so im just going to go to the Dsm guy in town that does it in the new next few weeks and have it done since my car cant have any down time until summer when schools out