Safc initial setting question.

[1gdave]

So while I was reading the manual it says if I have no throttle response while setting up my safc to put the setting to 4 cylinder and **. When I started the car it boggels and dies. I read on here that it should be set to 4 cylinder and up Arrow. Should I go against the manual and do it this way?

Any kind of input about this and/or how to make the car drivable to get my wideband installed (gonna take it to a mechanic.) would be appreciated

 

[evolkupid]

What the manual says to do is correct 4cyl and arrow up. double and triple check that all your connections are perfect any false contact will cause bad communication and the car will not respond very well at all. For pressure sensor it should be under Karman

 

[Junfan]

You should set the car for Karman, 4 Cylinder and Arrow point up.

Here is the settings I used on mine when I hooked it up. These are sligthly different than the VFAQ.


Brown closest to ECU on pin 106 Black (Ground)
Black over 1CM away from Brown on pin 106 Black (Ground)
Red on pin 107 Red (Power)
Green on pin 109 (white wire)
Grey on pin 19 Green/White stripe (Throttle Position Sensor)
Purple on pin 9 White (Detonation Sensor)
Orange Input from pin 10 Green/Black stripe (Airflow Sensor In)
Pink Output to pin 10 Green/Black stripe (Airflow Sensor out)

 

[1gdave]

Yeah I believe I installed it correctly. I have the setting set as Junfan stated. Im not getting any throttle readings and I cant rev the car past 2k rpm. I have a multimeter hooked up to the o2 to do a basic tune to get the car to a garage for my wideband. The meter shows .96v which is a bit rich but when I try and lean it out with the safc those numbers don't change. I've tested each connection to the safc with the multimeter and it reads a signal for all the connections. I'm currently stumped.
-dave

 

[Junfan]

I would use the following and see what your TPS readings look like. It is odd you are not getting anything from the throttle monitoring in the SAFC.

TPS Adjustment

 

[kchaazz]

If its an SAFC2, it needs to be set at 2 cylinder, not 4. Our cars use the "wasted spark" system. I used to tune with an SAFC, so trust me. Calibrate the TPS signal per the instructions. Set it to Karmen. Set the Lo throttle point to 30, the High throttle point to 80, I like the NE points to be in as many 500 RPM increments as possible, but some people prefer 1000 RPM points. If you bought the unit used, make sure the high and low correction settings are all at zero for stock injectors, or otherwise adjusted to compensate for your aftermarket injectors.

One more thing, using the multimeter to tune is a shot in the dark at best. You need a logger to look at the actual low, mid and high fuel trims, along with the O2 trim in order to get anything accurate, even a wideband isnt going to help with a good tune for anything other than when youre at wide open throttle. Also, dont even bother connecting the knock signal to the SAFC, its far from accurate as well. As far as the missing TPS signal is concerned, see if the problem corrects itself after you calibrate the signal with the SAFC, otherwise, Id check the connection where you spliced in. Did you use solder and heat shrink, or vamp taps? Ive seem vamp taps completely sever small wires before...

 

[1gdave]

If its an SAFC2, it needs to be set at 2 cylinder, not 4. Our cars use the "wasted spark" system. I used to tune with an SAFC, so trust me. Calibrate the TPS signal per the instructions. Set it to Karmen. Set the Lo throttle point to 30, the High throttle point to 80, I like the NE points to be in as many 500 RPM increments as possible, but some people prefer 1000 RPM points. If you bought the unit used, make sure the high and low correction settings are all at zero for stock injectors, or otherwise adjusted to compensate for your aftermarket injectors.

well its just a regular safc 1, do those settings still apply? I already tried them but it made no difference to my problem. car still wont rev past 2k and when I try it boggels down to 1.5. it idles at 1k and my safc isnt changing the fuel mixture cause my multimeter still reads the same thing.

One more thing, using the multimeter to tune is a shot in the dark at best. You need a logger to look at the actual low, mid and high fuel trims, along with the O2 trim in order to get anything accurate, even a wideband isnt going to help with a good tune for anything other than when youre at wide open throttle. Also, dont even bother connecting the knock signal to the SAFC, its far from accurate as well. As far as the missing TPS signal is concerned, see if the problem corrects itself after you calibrate the signal with the SAFC, otherwise, Id check the connection where you spliced in. Did you use solder and heat shrink, or vamp taps? Ive seem vamp taps completely sever small wires before...

I just need it to run, in about a month i'm going to invest in a dsmlink. i used the vamp taps but i tested each connection with the multimeter and everything was showing a signal. I used APEX'i AFC installation for the Galant VR4 to install. didnt do the blue wire mod.

 

[kchaazz]

Yes, all the settings still apply, but I believe your problem is maf related at this point. Does the RPM readout on the safc match your tach? If you have the safc set for four cylinder, the RPM readout on the safc will usually read HALF what the tach on the car is showing. Is your check engine light on when the car is running? Check the maf wires at the ECU where you wired in the safc to confirm they are connected properly. You did cut the wires for the maf and you have it wired so that the maf signal now has to pass through the safc before reaching the ecu, as opposed to just tapping into the factory maf wires?

Is this on a GVR4, or your DSM?? Im not sure the wires will be colored the same on a GVR4, or vise versa. You do know that when referring to a pinout, you have to take into account that the illustration is in reference to the back of the plug, where the wires are coming out, and not the front of the plug as though youre looking at the pins themselves, right? Im going to look at the GVR4 link you posted and Ill get back to ya.

Ok, I looked at the instructions. It just occured to me that Ive got a GVR4 ecu in one of my 1Gs. Therefore, though Id ignore the wire colors he mentions when referring to the car side of things (just in case the colors are different on the GVR4) as long as you are sure to use the wires that he's got circled in red, you should be ok. Still check those maf wires though.

 

[1gdave]

with the setting set to 4 cylinder the rpms on the safc are the same as what my car displays. I did cut the wire so it has to go through the safc. the engine light is on and I will make sure everything is connect properly. I have a feeling it might have something to do with the 2g maf I installed all though im almost 100% sure I installed it correctly. btw I appreciate the help man.

 

[Junfan]

Did you make your own converter for the 1g to 1g MAF connector or did you buy an after market? Also since you put in a new maf did you also do an ECU reset? I would verify the pinout on the MAF and if you have CEL codes get those. Sounds to me like maybe your MAF threw a CEL and put you in limp mode.

I got the colors and pins directly from my 93 eagle talon shop manual for electronics and the following wiring diagram.

http://www.dsmtalk.com/gallery/data/500/Drawing2_Model_1_.jpg

My car is a 93 obviously and that is what I posted. Sorry if I got you off track on colors.

 

[kchaazz]

with the setting set to 4 cylinder the rpms on the safc are the same as what my car displays. I did cut the wire so it has to go through the safc. the engine light is on and I will make sure everything is connect properly. I have a feeling it might have something to do with the 2g maf I installed all though im almost 100% sure I installed it correctly. btw I appreciate the help man.

Ahh, now I think I see whats going on. When you put the 2G plug onto the 1G harness, did you take into account that the pinout diagram is showing the back of the plug where the wires are coming out and not the front of the plug, looking at the pins? I bet its just wired in backward is all. Ive done it too Try unplugging the maf and see if the car revs better (dont drive the car like this, just rev it a bit and see if its more responsive, since when the ecu receives no maf signal, itll revert to a safe, rich state) Also, what injectors do you have installed? With the SAFC at 0 on the correction settings with a 2G maf and stock injectors, you will run a bit lean.

 

[Junfan]

An easy way to trace out the pins in your harness is get a multimeter and set it to ohms. Then put the black on pin and touch pins on the other end until you see zero ohms. This will help you check the converter cable. Mine was fine but I checked it anyhow. I would have built it but was having trouble locating a donor at the time.

Do you need me to look for the pinouts on the 1g to 2g maf converter?

Reset the ECU. Mine would not come out of limp mode once and a reset fixed it. I think it was cause I had my maf unplugged with the car on but not running.

 

[1gdave]

WOW that was it! it now revs passed 2k rpms. Thank you guys so much! kchaazz Im running 550cc injectors. The multimeter shows that I'm running a little rich and the safc Isn't changing the output on the multimeter. I'm gonna ponder about that one. You guys think its safe enough to drive (nice and slow) to a mechanic?

 

[kchaazz]

So the check engine light is gone now? For 550cc injectors and 2G maf you should have the safc at -8 percent across the board on high and low settings. Is the O2 voltage cycling on the multimeter or is it just sitting there? I do believe it should cycle between .3 and .7 volts at idle once warmed up.

 

[1gdave]

The voltage is cycling as you said, the only thing is I also have a evo 3 16g I installed with everything and the guy I bought it from told me the wastegate is set to 12psi (waste gate of a gt35r) On idle it feels better when I have safc set to +6 or +7% but at 2000 the multimeter says its running rich and it doesnt come down to .92v till about -18% I found that to be a very odd jump so I put them both back to 0 and left it alone for now. Gonna leave them at 0 till I get the wideband in I think.

 

[kchaazz]

The voltage is cycling as you said, the only thing is I also have a evo 3 16g I installed with everything and the guy I bought it from told me the wastegate is set to 12psi (waste gate of a gt35r) On idle it feels better when I have safc set to +6 or +7% but at 2000 the multimeter says its running rich and it doesnt come down to .92v till about -18% I found that to be a very odd jump so I put them both back to 0 and left it alone for now. Gonna leave them at 0 till I get the wideband in I think.

Yeah, best to just leave it at zero until you get the wideband, but definitely get a logger so that you can dial in the fuel trims. Can you borrow a logger from someone? 12psi on a 16g isnt going to be much different from the 14b but you will notice a difference at 16+ . Is the O2 sensor new? Ive found that its best to drive the car around the block a couple times to get the O2 sensor good and hot in order to get it to cycle better. If there are any exhaust leaks before the O2 sensor, you will get inaccurate readings as well. If you could get your hands on a logger, you could have the car dialed in rather quickly.

 

[1gdave]

Unfortunately I don't know anyone that has a logger around me. I plan on boosting to about 17 psi but not until I finish installing my front mount intercooler, afr, and wally 255. Ill look into getting a logger in a few weeks. the wideband should be installed tomorrow so ill give it a tune with the safc / wideband combo and let you guys know how everything turns out.

 

[1991eagleawd]

so what happend? and what are your safc %ages?

 

[twizdt]

i dont mean to but in, but im going to install my safc2 this weekend. I have a gm 3" maf installed between uicp and bov, with maf settings at AUX 4, Base 2, Idle 4, and the rest 0. Running the t-25 and full 16 lbs and sotck injectors. What settings should i use? karman, 4 cyl arrow up. but what about the fuel? I cant drive it to tune atm getting ready for paint. Thanks for any replies. PM would be easier for me to get.