SAFC 2 + LC1 Wide band turning

[Prodigyman]

I am updating my turbo from FP T28 to EVO 3 16G so I need larger injectors (650s) and fuel pump (190 LP). So I am wondering would SAFC 2 and LC1 Wide Band with the gauge be sufficient enough to tune the car properly.

I was also thinking getting GM MAF in blow through setup to vent but I wonder why everyone has MAFT and SAFC2 together? Can't SAFC2 already handle the signal from GM MAF (or ANY other MAF which can fit on my UIP) and adjust the A/F + compensate for vented air?? I searched through the forums but never found a reason why people do it.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Excellent idea to upgrade the fuel system before upgrading the turbo. It's nice to see some people take care of the necessities first. Anyway, you could successfully tune the 650's with an SAFC only, but the WBO2 is just "gravy".

The reason for using both the SAFC and the MAFT is for fine tuning. The MAFT can be set for a specific size injector and the SAFC is used to take care of the fine adjustments.

 

[Prodigyman]

So MAFT (gen 1) has better adjustment to compensate for higher flow injectors then SAFC II? I haven’t dealt with SAFC II but my buddy has Silvia with SR20 and his SAFC II can take care of his UIP Skyline MAF and his 650CCs no problem + it has option for compensate for Venting BOV if you are not in Blow Through setup. So I was thinking of going the same path with SAFC II and WBO2.

I really don’t think you can tune with Narrow Band A/F gauge (one I have now) so I pretty much have to buy WBO2 so I can adjust SAFC II on the fly.

 

[spyderturbo007]

I'm going to steer clear of answering any more MAFT questions, since I have never used one personally. I could regirgutate what I have read, but I don't like doing that.

Venting the BOV isn't recommended when using the SAFC by itself. Your friend is most likely using the deceleration correction in the SAFC, but that setting doesn't work with our MAS.

As for tuning with the stock O2, don't even try it. You do have a logger.....right?

 

[Prodigyman]

I'm going to steer clear of answering any more MAFT questions, since I have never used one personally. I could regirgutate what I have read, but I don't like doing that.

Venting the BOV isn't recommended when using the SAFC by itself. Your friend is most likely using the deceleration correction in the SAFC, but that setting doesn't work with our MAS.

As for tuning with the stock O2, don't even try it. You do have a logger.....right?

Maybe it would sound noobish but why would I need the data logger? I mean SAFC II can tell me my nock count and WBO2 accurate A/F reading (0 to 5V range) so if I see any nock I can compensate for it with AFC.

But from what I read on the boards SAFC II and data logger is all I need? I mean OBDII logger reads stock sensor readings from Narrow Band O2 so I don't see how can I get any accurate reading from the it (for A/F at least) or need for it at all. Correct me if I am wrong

 

[Gromit]

Maybe it would sound noobish but why would I need the data logger? I mean SAFC II can tell me my nock count and WBO2 accurate A/F reading (0 to 5V range) so if I see any nock I can compensate for it with AFC.

But from what I read on the boards SAFC II and data logger is all I need? I mean OBDII logger reads stock sensor readings from Narrow Band O2 so I don’t see how can I get any accurate reading from the it (for A/F at least) or need for it at all. Correct me if I am wrong

The SAFC II cannot read our knock sensors correctly so the displayed knock info is useless. In the absence of DSM Link, the only way for a 2G to monitor knock is to log timing & look for dips to indicate areas of knock. You are correct that the stock narrow band O2 readings are not useful for tuning. The WBO2, SAFC II, & logger with Pocketlogger software would be a nice tuning package for you.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Maybe it would sound noobish but why would I need the data logger?

Ahhhhhhhh.........You didn't just say that, did you.

Sorry, I'm just giving you a hard time.

I mean SAFC II can tell me my nock count and WBO2 accurate A/F reading (0 to 5V range) so if I see any nock I can compensate for it with AFC.

As Neal said, the knock input on the SAFC II is worthless and will yeild some very unusual results.

But from what I read on the boards SAFC II and data logger is all I need?

Yep, that's what I do. There is definately more functionality with something like DSMLink, but you can get a pretty good tune using just the logger. I would never steer anyone away from DSMLink, but a logger and SAFC will do just fine.

I mean OBDII logger reads stock sensor readings from Narrow Band O2 so I don’t see how can I get any accurate reading from the it (for A/F at least) or need for it at all. Correct me if I am wrong

Correct. The stock O2 is worthless at WOT, so most of the time I don't even look at the values. If there is an something weird going on with the timing, I'll take a look at the O2 values because they normally provide a pretty good guideline as to your AFR. For example, if you are loosing a ton of timing and your O2 voltages are 0.86, you can gather that you are lean. On the other hand, if the values are 1.0V, then you can guess that you are rich.

Really the use for the logger is to look at timing curves and airflow. At least, that's all I log.

 

[Prodigyman]

Thx for the info guys, I get it now. I'll go SAFC II and get the OBDII cable with some PDA + stock MAF and go from there. I'll post some results later on with my new setup.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Thx for the info guys, I get it now. I'll go SAFC II and get the OBDII cable with some PDA + stock MAF and go from there. I'll post some results later on with my new setup.

If you are in the market for a logger, I would suggest checking out www.pocketlogger.com .

They have a nice package with the logging software, OBD-II cable and PLViewer for $125. Plus they have a good forum and opportunity for beta testing when a new version arrives. If you go that route, you can pick up a used Palm on ebay for about $20. I went with an m105 to start and then got tired of replacing the batteries every couple of days, so I got an m130 that has rechargable batteries. I think I got that for about $35.

You can go with the free software that's out there, but I only have personal experience with the PocketLogger software so I won't comment on the others.