Ruin my Engine with SAFC?

[rEclipserGST]

One of my friends who drives a HONDA CIVIC with a b16, told me that i could BASICALLY ruin my engine if i dont have a Wideband on my O2 sensor. I need to know if i have to get one. I drive a 1995 GST and i just hit 90,000 miles yesterday. Im tryin to tune for 17 psi on stock eternals. I have a Blitz boost controller with built in gauge, an APEXI fuel air controller and a K&N air filter. Im going for a sleeper car. Stock exhaust, stock injectors, stock suspension. I mean lets admit it... DSM's are just built sexy.

& btw... b16 cant beat a 4g63T

 

[Twistaye]

Well the thing is, if you don't have a wideband and you're tuning with the SAFC what are you using for datalogging? How do you know how lean/rich your car is running? If you don't know this then yes you can definately ruin your engine, a wideband is definately a plus! I would also look into getting something more reliable for tuning if you're going to be modding your car more. I'm ordering DSMLink as soon as I get back to the states and have a look through my car.. (Haven't seen my car in over 6 months !) But the simple answer to your q is: Yes you can ruin your engine tuning with an SAFC if you don't have a wideband due to the fact you could be leaning it out too much. (The butt dyno isn't a very good way to tune !)

 

[cjridert1]

logger +1. You can pick up a logger and cable up used for like $60 on the classifieds if you want. Maybe become familiar with the values and their ranges then get a safc. Also, why do you feel you need a safc? I believe* the ecu's base a/f maps should be fine for 17psi. Much more than this and you will be looking at 550s in which case a safc is a good option to tune things with.

 

[MrBoxx]

If you're still on the stock turbo and stock internals, then I highly suggest a larger fuel pump and rewire to help keep you from going too lean at 17psi. If you want to stay "sleeper" and run higher boost with the hairdryer known as the T25, you'll want to look into a larger SMIC and/or meth injection.

Since you have a 95, there's a good chance you have an Eprom ECU, which means that DSMLink would be an ideal choice for logging, tuning, and problem-solving. I think everyone here would rather see you use that for tuning than the SAFC. You'll see the advantages of DSMLink over the AFC the first minute you start the program.

 

[kqodprez]

Just get a logger, do the rewire and to add set up....get a stock appearing exhaust. Even opening it up 2 1/2 inches makes a nice difference.

BTW, 90k on a 95 is AWSOME!

Last note: Make sure that you have all of your maintance done before you go off whipping B16 civics and mustangs. And don't underestimate that B16 as I've seen them break low 13's at the track which is faster then your car as of now.

 

[DSMvroom]

GL keeping 17psi by redline on your T25 The best I got with my old one was a spike to 15psi and a drop-off to ~10psi by redline.

But I agree with pretty much all of the above, including the lethality of a b16 civic.
An n/a b16 could easily push upwards of 200hp on a car that weighs next to nothing. Or did they do more than that even?

Anyway you don't 'need' a wideband. Get a datalogger so you know what is going on with your tuning on the AFC. The better option of course would be to use DSMLink as suggested by MrBoxx

 

[rEclipserGST]

So your saying i can not get 17 psi with my stock turbo?

 

[rarson]

As a test, I disconnected the boost source from the wastegate actuator so that the wastegate would stay shut. I took the car up to 5500 RPM and then went to WOT. It only made 15 psi of boost and dropped off rapidly after that.

At high RPM, the exhaust housing is so restrictive and exhaust pressure so high that it just blows the wastegate right open.

 

[mike_tsi]

I would suggest the wideband or logger. Also bigger injectors, fuel pump so you dont hit fuel cut. While a supra side mount could be a plus for you if you want to keep it a sleeper. It wouldn't hurt also to open your exhaust up a bit and still keep it stock looking.

 

[silver bullit]

So your saying i can not get 17 psi with my stock turbo?

Its good till 15 after that dont count on it to last long.

 

[kqodprez]

Another option would be to bolt on a 14b turbo from a 5-speed 1g. It will hold 17 psi with no problem. And it looks stock as heck...

 

[rarson]

Its good till 15 after that dont count on it to last long.

It's not that it'll kill the turbo, it's that the turbo can't physically push that much air. And even if the compressor wheel was up to the task, the turbine housing is too choked to flow that much.

Mine would drop off to like 11 psi at redline. Which is pathetic on a stock 2g head with stock cams and intake manifold.

 

[mike_tsi]

Or to keep it more sleeper with a look a like turbo. Get a t-28...............

 

[haioku-rocket]

I agree.

Logger a must, and I would also say a wideband.

 

[ryanx99GS]

Or to keep it more sleeper with a look a like turbo. Get a t-28...............

Or to be even more sleeper get a 20g that is modded for an internal wastegate . Don't have to get a 2g install kit like you need to for a 16g/14b etc. Runs the same lines and faces the same way as your T-25. That's what I plan on running after my rebuild.

 

[rEclipserGST]

sounds good. 20g tho.... wouldnt i have to add some more supporting mods so i dont blow my motor?

 

[UnderPrssureDSM]

The SAFC won't do much until you upgrade your fuel delivery. Get all your gauges in first and get used to the readings they'll give you. Install the AFC just to get some seat time with it. Upgrade the fuel pump, then adjust for the extra fuel. Upgrade the injectors, then adjust for the extra fuel. Upgrade your turbo, then adjust for the extra air. Do not combine upgrades of fuel and air at the same time or you'll be chasing your tail for months. Don't ask me how I know.

As far as 17psi on a T25... you'll kill the turbo before you kill the engine. Again, don't ask me how I know. Keep your boost control set around 15psi and be happy with it for now until you do all the other things I've mentioned.