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Rough response, hesitation near peak boost

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_Madman_

15+ Year Contributor
327
1
Oct 14, 2004
Riga, Europe
I recently replaced the transmission on my car, and after driving a little, it seems that the car has some problems.

1) The car seems to be very rough when you apply or release throttle. Say you cruise at 2k rpms, apply throttle then instantly, release it, reapply again, it feels like you're launching and getting fuel cut or something. The hits are very rough.

2) Idling seems to be rougher than it should be, I have polly mounts, but still, the vibration seem to be uneven.

3) With boost set at 16psi, I get a very crude hesitation, boggling as soon as peak boost hits (+/-3000 RPM range). Only seem to happens in 4th and 5th gears, although it could be that others are doing the same thing too.
It's hard to say if the short vibration during 2nd gear at the same range is because of the wheelspin and Quaife locking the wheels, or the same issue. The car revs quite fast through that range, but also feels a bit sleepy there.
In 5th gear I can get a 2 second hammering if I want to. And it's not like a fuel cut that shuts the car down completely. 5th gear, cruising at 55mph, apply throttle, car starts to shake. RPMs seem to stop climbing at the same time too.
When I adjusted the boost a little lower 14.5 psi or something, the hessitation is less pronounced but it's still there.

The cars upgrades are in my signature and are updated. I also searched the forums, but all the threads I've read through seem to indicate that half of the car has been replaced and no post to indicate the success or failure and the real culprit.

I don't want to spend huge amounts of money on replacing everything, so I'm hoping someone can tell me what to look for first.

But for now it seems that pretty much anything can be faulty. :ohdamn:

I can also log the car, and I have few EvoScan logs done, but the car has weird experimental ECU from Mitsubishi and therefore not all parameters can be trusted, and it's hard to say if they're accurate.

I attached short EvoScan log from bogging at 5th gear below (rename .xml to .csv). The log has been done using Ceddys XML profile for EvoScan. Unfortunately, I don't have wideband so AFRs are unknown during bogging.

How can I narrow down is it a spark issue, fuel delivery issue or something else. How can I tell if it's preignition, detonation or something else? What sort of data is missing to understand the problem?
 

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that sound exactely how mines acting now
keep me updated if you figure it out
i'll be swapping my ecu out tonight with a new one tonight to see if that helps
 
I partially solved the problem.

Replaced the spark plugs with NGK BPR6ES-11 (V-Line) and the car doesn't hesitate at high boost and high RPMs anymore.

Unfortunately these plugs are gaped at 1.1mm or 0.043", so I still don't know if uneven idle is related to something else, or still the spark plugs. Mechanic told that gaping 1.1mm to 0.7-0.8 mm is not recommended. So I'm driving with plugs gaped at 0.043" like for NT.

Either way, I'm ordering NGK BPR6ES-8, since they are cheap. Well see how it goes after they arrive after 2 or so weeks.

I also brought NGK wires, unfortunately salesperson gave me the ME64 wires which are for 1G, and therefore I hadn't tested them, I will exchange them tomorrow with ME77 wires, which are for 2G, if not I'll have to wait for them too :(
 
gap should be .028-.031" don't listen to this "mechanic"

i have no doubt that just gapping your plugs properly will fix your problems.
 
Well, he's definitely skilled, and he's building cars for competition use, so I believe there could be some truth behind what he said.

And seeing the plugs themselves, I have a feeling their strength might be compromised by bending them down by 0.4mm or 0.016". Micro cracks, and broken off spark plug nose is probably not what I want inside the combustion chamber. It's enough that paint or something was falling off those plugs WTF

Then again, everyone makes mistakes, and he's not specialized in DSMs, so that wouldn't be awry if he didn't knew the DSM specifics. These cars are very rare in Europe, none of the shop catalogs/databases can find the actual part numbers, all numbers are always from 2G NTs.

That's why I'm double checking. And it somehow seems that wider gap should only give a longer spark, therefore better combustion. Unless it gets extinguished at high boost levels, which isn't happening right now.

Does anyone know the actual implications of gap size of the spark plug?

I am about to order NGK BPR6ES-8 tomorrow either way.
 
you won't ruin the plug by gapping it down if it's basically new. a bigger gap has to jump air, which is pretty electrically nonconductive. the spark will be weaker, and with boost, will make it harder to ignite fuel. as rpms increase with boost with a big ass gap, it gets even worse. always stick to what the manufacturer recommends unless you are totally redesigning the car for some serious power.
 
hey man I had some similar issues and bought some ngk bpr7es plugs, gaped them at .029 and it fixed about all of them. I'd strongly recommend going with ramsack and checking gap. if your gonna be runnin more than stock boost you may wanna think about steppin up to a 7es also.
 
yeah i've got a boost leak i've got to fix but i did that same with my plugs
(i gapped them at 30) its recommended between 28-32
its running better and i don't hit cut at high rpm's anymore but my idel still sits at about 1500
i'm going to swap the ecu and try a new isc and see if that helps i'm still running pretty rich
 
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