Rookie mistake, Tranny rebuild, need help/direction

[gijoe985]

Alright, I just rebuilt and installed my 96 awd tranny. I am assuming that nothing is turning inside it because even in neutral if I drop the clutch it kills the engine like if I was holding the brakes. I jacked up all four wheels and not one even budges.

How should I go about solving thins? I felt that my rebuild went really smooth and if anything it'd be sloppy, not something too tight.

I'll admit, I did not change the shims. I figured worse case scenario it'd be sloppy, like I said. I know some people have had problems when the shims were too thick.

I replace a few bearings, all synchros, and the 1-2 and 5th synchro hubs and sleeves. Got them from TRE.

Either way, any advice, specifically some diagnosis ideas for what I could do before I pull the tranny to tear it apart again. I am fully ready to do that, but I definitely don't want to if I didn't have to.

 

[bastarddsm]

my guess is its locked in two gears at once. somehow you got the shift forks wrong.

 

[twicks69]

Alright, I just rebuilt and installed my 96 awd tranny. I am assuming that nothing is turning inside it because even in neutral if I drop the clutch it kills the engine like if I was holding the brakes. I jacked up all four wheels and not one even budges.

How should I go about solving thins? I felt that my rebuild went really smooth and if anything it'd be sloppy, not something too tight.

I'll admit, I did not change the shims. I figured worse case scenario it'd be sloppy, like I said. I know some people have had problems when the shims were too thick.

I replace a few bearings, all synchros, and the 1-2 and 5th synchro hubs and sleeves. Got them from TRE.

Either way, any advice, specifically some diagnosis ideas for what I could do before I pull the tranny to tear it apart again. I am fully ready to do that, but I definitely don't want to if I didn't have to.

Did it shift on the bench after the rebuild? Do you have your shifter cables reversed? Do you have the clutch disk reversed? Are your clutch hydraulics working properly?

You should have re-shimmed the transmission.

First off, try shifting the transmission at the linkage connection; if it doesn't shift smoothly by hand at the linkage, it will need to be pulled and dissassembled and re-shimmed.

 

[gijoe985]

It shifts into all gears fine. Well, reverse it shifts hard, but before I rebuilt it it wouldn't go into reverse at all. Either way, I know it is going into the gears, I checked that before I put it in the car.

"my guess is its locked in two gears at once. somehow you got the shift forks wrong. "

I think this may be more like what is going on. Should I try taking off the top of the tranny and seeing if I can turn it with a wrench on those 36mm bolts that go on the ends of the shafts?

I'm pretty sure will need to drop the tranny again, but I just want to make sure I've covered my bases first.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

When I put my shift rails in, there is a metal ball thing that goes into the shift levers that holds the reverse shift lever onto the rail. It's in the one that slides onto the 5th/R rail and the 3/4 rail. I know that if you forget this ball it will drop reverse into gear no matter what gear you are in making it in two gears at once. Before you put your tranny in did you make sure to spin the input shaft with a clutch disc and shift it into each gear? You should do this to make sure that you can spin it and it shift into every gear.

 

[gijoe985]

When I put my shift rails in, there is a metal ball thing that goes into the shift levers that holds the reverse shift lever onto the rail. It's in the one that slides onto the 5th/R rail and the 3/4 rail. I know that if you forget this ball it will drop reverse into gear no matter what gear you are in making it in two gears at once. Before you put your tranny in did you make sure to spin the input shaft with a clutch disc and shift it into each gear? You should do this to make sure that you can spin it and it shift into every gear.

Ok, I need to look into this because it was having a lot of problems shifting into reverse and I'll admit, I do not recall seeing any other balls than the one under the VC(it shows when the VC comes off) and then were the ones behind the bolts and springs that hold the shift linkage in.

Anyone have a picture of this? To make sure I'm imagining this correctly...

 

[gijoe985]

Let me break this down to make sure I understand.

When I put my shift rails in,

The three metal poles that the shift forks go on, correct?

there is a metal ball thing that goes into the shift levers that holds the reverse shift lever onto the rail.

Shift levers = forks?

Before you put your tranny in did you make sure to spin the input shaft with a clutch disc and shift it into each gear?

A what?

I really think I need some pictures. Maybe use the Vfaq rebuild info to help...

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Hold on... I'll get a picture for you.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

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OK, Everything should be labeled in the picture according to how I described it. Now, the part I am concerned about in your trans is inside the 5th/R shift lever sandwiched between the 5th/R Shift Rail and the 3rd/4th shift rail. Where it is labeled "RETAINING BALL" it is inside there between the rails. There are detents on each of those two rails for the ball to sit in. If that is not in there you will have your described problems. To make it even worse, it's not really even a true ball. It's more elongated. If my shift assembly wasn't already put together I would take a picture for you. But, if you took the 5th/R shift lever off the rails this "ball" would most likely have fallen out. It did when I took mine apart. More questions? Just ask!! I'm not an expert but I know when I did my initial fitment of the shift assembly I didn't put that ball in and every time I put it into a gear reverse would drop down and engage.

 

[gijoe985]

Awesome picture! What about in neutral? It still dies if I am in neutral...

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Yea, that one is weird.

The only thing I can think of for that is if you forgot some roll pins in the shift forks and the rail is just sliding through the fork.

 

[gijoe985]

Well I know I got my pins in. But that one ball bearing falling out could be a possibility. Maybe it is trying to "engage neutral" and reverse at the same time? Is that possible. I think your idea is sounding most plausible right now.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Well, neutral really is just when no gears are engaged. So if reverse always engaged then whenever you tried to put it into a gear the trans would then be locked. But then the normal neutral position would get you reverse all the time. The only other thing I can think of would be if your syncro rings didn't seat on the three keys when you pressed them on it could be binding making it be in gear. While also being in reverse = locked up trans. ?? Another possibility is if you put your shift forks on upside down. That could possibly put it into two gears at once since it wouldn't be in the right position at the right time. There are so many reasons why it could be doing this. But, your best bet is to pull it out and tear it down. When you do, post some pictures of it so it can be documented here if anyone else runs into the same problem.

-andrew

 

[gijoe985]

Ok, I was going to pull the tranny today, but first I thought I'd check this.

What about puling the top off the tranny with it still in the car? I did that once when installing to check something. If I pulled the end off, and spun the shafts to see how they were spinning, what should I observe? Like if I took a wrench to the 1/2, 5/R shaft, and turned it clockwise, what should I observe? Do you think I could pinpoint my problem this way? Or should I just go ahead and pull it?

 

[gijoe985]

Well, I haven't had any feedback as to what I'm looking for. I also tried emailing a few people, but I figure whatever is wrong, even if I can diagnose it without removing the tranny, I'll probably need the tranny out to fix it.

Either way, I'm getting quicker at pulling the tranny out

I'll let you all know what I find, or if I get stumped...

 

[Killa_dsm]

I say pull the tranny out and start over again. Are you using a Mitsubishi instruction manual?

These links helped me out when I rebuilt my tranny so take a look.
Mitsubishi manual:
http://www.ecanfix.com/users/manualcd/gift/dsm/patrick_2g_mt_overhaul.pdf

Rebuild with pictures:
Dre

 

[gijoe985]

Yup, I did... I think everything went well, I just slipped up on one part, and that's all it takes...

He who rebuilds the whole tranny well, but messes up at one point, is guilty of messing up at them all...

 

[gijoe985]

Ok, I finally got it. It turns out that I made the mistake to assume that since I didn't change the 1st gear race it woulnd't be the problem. Looks like both new and old bearing have the same part number, 32205, but both have a different letter at the beginning. The new bearing wouldn't seat in the old race. I stuck the new race in and everything lined up...