rich or lean?

[Blitzeclips]

Sorry if this may be off topic, but Paul, correct me if I'm wrong.

The ideal location for accurate readings of EGT would be tapping of the 1st cylinder port on the exhaust manfold.

 

[totaleclipse_05]

Nope. Not if it's done right.

What? "Not if it's done right."? What is that suppose to mean? Yes, everything was done right, I apparently had a worn out fuel pump though and it maxed out at 70 psi fuel pressure. And yes, it was a HP model, the model number matched the brand new one I received and that one worked out just fine and still is.

That's not what I said... if the fuel pump were to suddenly stop working, no damage would occur. If you try to force fuel through 190 or 255cc/min injectors at 160psi, then damage will likely occur.

I never said the fuel pump suddenly stopped working. I said it could not keep up with the higher pressures of more boost like it should have been able to. And had I not had my "worthless" $30 narrowband gauge hooked up, I probably wouldn't have realized it until it was too late.

And yes blitz, cylinder port #1 is ideal for an EGT probe.

 

[4UH8ERS]

Nope. Not if it's done right.

....What are you talking about? The statement doesn't even make sense to the question that was asked.

 

[DSMcrazy3]

Blitz, calm down. In the past I had a SAFC, first of all the gains from it are minimal, not a worthy investment for a 420a.. Talk about buying something you will end up replacing...

He's using an SAFC and tuning, you didnt and aren't.

WTF How can you say I didn't? Have you been keeping a close watch on me for the past 2 years, or what? Because, I did and guess what, it was tuned off of a narrowband gauge!!! My motor didn't blow up, the car ran fine. I agree in a tuning situation wideband is far superior over narrowband but if someone knows what they're doing you can improve the cars performance reading off of a narrowband. Thank you.

Paul, by "fail" I meant the pump no longer provided the amount of pressure needed to support 5+ psi. I didn't mean it all of a sudden stopped working entirely. I was logging with my ZT-2 once to check it out and sure enough(as I said before) a/f began to rise, as well as EGTs. How high they got, I don't remember. Obviously I'm not going to keep going when I see that, but it did affect the egts enough to worry me.

As for buying a gauge you will turn around and sell, people will always be in the market for narrowbands. Well, atleast for a good while. It wouldn't be too hard to turn around and sell again. Sure not for $50, but granted it's in good condition the seller could easily get $30.

The ideal location for accurate readings of EGT would be tapping of the 1st cylinder port on the exhaust manfold.

The ideal location for EGT probe placement is the cylinder runner on the feed line section of the fuel rail. Ideally, that way if there is a fuel problem, that will be the first cylinder suffer and first indication of a potential problem.

 

[Blitzeclips]

TOTALECLIPSE05, DSMCRAZY3, and 4UH8TERS: Listen up and listen good.

First, everyone needs to stop telling me to calm down. No one is hyped up here and somehow people can read moods or emotions through a computer. Maybe the way I type portrays this, but trust me, I'm not amped up and getting butt hurt over the forums. My mood is that of someone whom recently finshed a fat spliff. Not 2 twelve packs.

Secondly, yes, that's what I said. If it's done right it shouldn't have happened. TOTAL05, you stated that you had bought a worn out pump. Well, if it was done right, the pump wouldn't have worn out. Let me re-phrase that, is buying a used high flow pump doing things right? That failing led to your problem. The gauge was a mere hint. By the time you probably saw red, the damage would've already been done. Those things give the most inaccurate readings, in such lagged real time is laughable.

Secondly, I'm pertaining to the OP's original goal and question. He is obviously trying to tune the car, so anytime you introduce tuning to the equation, you mine as well throw the narrowband in the trash. Now, if you aren't tuning and want some sort of feedback on the air.fuel mixture, sure, by all means. buy it. But once you tinker with tuning and air/fuel ratios, you NEED, NEED, a wideband o2. It's pointless to use anything else. Using a narrowband when tuning the feul trims is only risky to you, your wallet, and that motor. That's why I said trash the narrowband, get a wideband. Because for what he wants, and for what he is doing, the narrowband becomes useless, and wideband is really the only option for optimum readings.

I'm not talking in relation to you guys, I'm talking in relation to the OP. Like I said, trash the narrowband and get a wideband if you're tuning the fuel ratios. I wouldn't recommend ANYTHING else for that. I would actually consider what I said a warning. So when he comes back 2 weeks from now because his narrowband gave inaccurate readings, leading to a blown motor,I could say I told you so. Well, not literally I don't want that for anyone but you see what I'm saying.

Is everyone out to get me or... ??

 

[DSMcrazy3]

By the time you probably saw red, the damage would've already been done. Those things give the most inaccurate readings, in such lagged real time is laughable

How are you so sure of this? When logging the gauge was in red as soon as I noticed EGTs rising.

 

[Blitzeclips]

How are you so sure of this? When logging the gauge was in red as soon as I noticed EGTs rising.

Because my less knowledgable friends have had this narrowband on thier car. I have seen how long it takes to get an accurate reading and the lag time associated with that. Once they switched to wideband, we could see where the narrowband was COMPLETELY inaccurate. We even compared them at the same boost levels. Not to mention most of the time you need to WOT to even get a reading, therefore screwing yourself. You see, why in the hell would you WOT the car to get a fuel/air reading? That defeats the purpose, and sets you up for disaster. Because if there is ANYTHING wrong with the fuel system, a WOT, just to get the reading, you make yourself vulnerable to detonation. Why in the world, when you are testing your fuel delivery and ratio, would you WOT just to get a reading, when you don't know if there's anything wrong with the set-up already, or as is? Doesn't make sense. With a wideband, you know at idle, 1/4 throttle, 1/2 throttle, WOT, real time, accurate, and you don't need to give er hell just to see what the fuel trim is looking at..

Matter of fact, the reason TOTAL05 thinks he saved his motor, is probably because he was at WOT just to get the reading.

 

[Locke]

The ideal location for EGT probe placement is the cylinder runner on the feed line section of the fuel rail. Ideally, that way if there is a fuel problem, that will be the first cylinder suffer and first indication of a potential problem.

I'm not usually one to question a Wiseman, but that seems incorrect.

The cylinder furthest from the feed will the be leanest (or most likely). With 3 leaks introduced into the rail (injectors) before the #1, the likelihood of the highest pressure drop at cylinder #1 will be the greatest.

It would seem to me to place the EGT sensor in the #1 primary, away from the feed, as it would have the best opportunity to be the leanest, and hottest.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

I'm not usually one to question a Wiseman, but that seems incorrect.

The cylinder furthest from the feed will the be leanest (or most likely). With 3 leaks introduced into the rail (injectors) before the #1, the likelihood of the highest pressure drop at cylinder #1 will be the greatest.

It would seem to me to place the EGT sensor in the #1 primary, away from the feed, as it would have the best opportunity to be the leanest, and hottest.

Locke, you are absolutely right.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Paul, by "fail" I meant the pump no longer provided the amount of pressure needed to support 5+ psi. I didn't mean it all of a sudden stopped working entirely. I was logging with my ZT-2 once to check it out and sure enough(as I said before) a/f began to rise, as well as EGTs. How high they got, I don't remember. Obviously I'm not going to keep going when I see that, but it did affect the egts enough to worry me.

As for buying a gauge you will turn around and sell, people will always be in the market for narrowbands. Well, atleast for a good while. It wouldn't be too hard to turn around and sell again. Sure not for $50, but granted it's in good condition the seller could easily get $30.

Well, you needed to clarify then.

I don't think we'll ever agree on this, though. I think you're mistaken about the value of a second-hand narrowband AFR gauge, as well as its usefulness.

Nevertheless, this thread is getting too far off topic. Let's stick to the original question at hand...

 

[totaleclipse_05]

Secondly, yes, that's what I said. If it's done right it shouldn't have happened. TOTAL05, you stated that you had bought a worn out pump. Well, if it was done right, the pump wouldn't have worn out. Let me re-phrase that, is buying a used high flow pump doing things right? That failing led to your problem.

I never bought the fuel pump that was worn out, I got it free on a trade with stuff I didn't need anymore before I moved out of my apartment. I was ready to buy a new fuel pump anyways for the turbo build, but figured I would give a used one a try since I didn't have to pay for it.