[RESOLVED] WEIRD 0 Compression Cylinder 1

[da1sexmonk83]

First, I know what your thinking, he could have found this somewhere else. NO I can't, I have talked to techs at SlowBoy, and David Buscher himself. This problem is not an obvious fix, they had no idea.

Second, the posting policy on this site is STUPID. I would like the whole community to see my post *sigh*.

Anyway Here is the deal

have a 2g Talon TSi AWD with 6 bolt motor swap and many many mods including but not limited to Eagle Rods, JE pistons, Balance shaft eliminator kit, Bullseye 50 trim turbo and ported exhaust manifold. NONE of this was done by me, it was all done by REV Hard and Buscher Racing prior to my purchasing of the vehicle.

I bought the car being told that there was a slight lifter problem on the first cylinder giving a drop of 60 psi on that cylinder (from 150psi to 90). He provided me with the 3g lifters to solve that problem and the ticking. So I have a machine shop take the head to have the new lifters put in and beholden to me is a fried head gasket and warped head. I have the head milled and install a Ralliart (MLS) head gasket good to 35lbs of boost supposedly (Slowboy Racing).

we get the head back and reassemble the block (my brother did anyway he has been a mechanic of 15 years), then try to start it and its acting WORSE than before. We have ZERO compression on cylinder 1 and the thing runs like crap.

So we take off the valve cover, and remove the rocker to check the compression in a definite closed position to see if the valves are bent as we expect them to be. Compression test and it pulls 150 psi, just like all the other cylinders.

Recap:
Rocker arms in cylinder 1 - 0 PSi
Leak down test Rocker arms on - Air Blow out the Muffler
Rocker arms off of Cylinder 1 - 150 psi (just like all other cylinders)
Leak down test Rocker arms off - No leaks


But the Rocker seems to be fine, and the lifters are new (3g) and the depress with finger pressure as they should. We cleaned them the lifter out anyway and checked it again just to be sure. Same Result

Yes we have rechecked timing several times, it is right.

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/h...3/S5002126.jpg

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/h...3/S5002124.jpg

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/h...3/S5002123.jpg

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/h...3/S5002129.jpg

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/h...3/S5002130.jpg

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/h...3/S5002131.jpg

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/h...3/S5002134.jpg

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/h...3/S5002137.jpg

YouTube - Rockers and Lifters

Slowboy and many others said that valve damage is VERY unlikely as I am getting the same compression on that cylinder as all the others with the lifters off. Did you get good compression ass well? I would imagine if something was broken off, it would less likely hold the valve open than closed.

 

[GVR4592]

Second, the posting policy on this site is STUPID. I would like the whole community to see my post *sigh*.

Everybody can see your post, you're just not allowed to post in other areas.

 

[GVR4592]

It sounds like a lifter issue. It could be that one of them isn't compressing all the way, or there is something in the lifter bore, preventing it from being seated all the way.

 

[marsh63]

i had 0 compression in the cylinder that had the bad valve and on the leak down i had 95% leak down at 90psi. but yours probably isnt as bad as mine was.

if anything one of your exhaust valves isn't seating right then. or who ever milled the head for the valves miss milled it somehow. or your lifters are not working right.

 

[GVR4592]

I know everyone can see it, I just wished it wasn't in the noob section. Any idea's on my problem wiseman?

It's probably better that it's in the newbie section. This section gets more attention than any other section of the site.

 

[da1sexmonk83]

Thats just the thing, something isn't ALLOWING it to seal, I just don't know what. Because it gets perfect compression when the rockers are off. There is no way it would get perfect compression (at least as far as I have been told) if there was something wrong with the sealing part of the valve. As for the machine shops mistake, I suppose that is possible but the milling part doesn't make much sense either because of the perfect compression again. And the leak down was also perfect with the rockers off. I am with you on lifers and rockers though it almost seems that it must be that....but they seem to be in perfect condition too. I am looking for some ideas that are beyond the lifters or valve seal problem. The bottom of the valve is in great shape. It seals good but isn't being ALLOWED to seal... Like I said VERY weird problem and I am hoping for a weird but simple answer....more like praying for one! heh

 

[GVR4592]

If a valve was bent or not seating correctly, there would still be no compression after the rocker was removed. He has compression when he removes the rockers. That eliminates a bent valve.

 

[da1sexmonk83]

Oh thank God, that guy freaked me out! From all I was told you couldn't get a seal with a messed up valve so there was something else keeping it open in the regular cycle of the engine.

 

[GVR4592]

Oh thank God, that guy freaked me out! From all I was told you couldn't get a seal with a messed up valve so there was something else keeping it open in the regular cycle of the engine.

Yeah, the only thing I can come up with is a lifter or possibly the valve installed height is not correct.

 

[da1sexmonk83]

Oh, no blame! many people have jumped to the same conclusion! haha, they see the OBVIOUS problem and skip the rest. Its no big deal, I just hope someone has an idea about what is wrong.

 

[da1sexmonk83]

Yes, several people have commented on possible valve size. But how would that happen?? A manufacturing problem? If it is a height problem, then how would I resolve this problem?

 

[marsh63]

yeah im real sorry about earlier. but ive heard some stuff about if the lifters are not bleed right it will cause a seating problem.

 

[da1sexmonk83]

Hmmm, now that might be the case. We did clean them out, but perhaps not well enough. Do you have a site or link to proper technique.

 

[GVR4592]

http://vfaq.com/mods/lifters.html

 

[marsh63]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt-tech/236902-lifter-bleeding.html heres a post about it.

http://vfaq.com/mods/lifters.html and heres a bleeding thing in v###

 

[da1sexmonk83]

Thanks. Like I said, we did bleed them and clean them even though they are new, and the video above shows how depressible they are are. But We will of course do it again.

 

[da1sexmonk83]

Alright, not a lifter problem. Lifter and rocker test came out negative they are both functioning as they are supposed to. Now we have noticed something that is out of place. The valve tip is supposed to be sticking up a little above the spring and retainer right (about 1/4th of an inch). This was how all the other cylinders were anyway, and one of the two on cylinder 1. The other one on cylinder one was sitting flush on where the rocker arm sits, so we thought this might be the problem and took out the Valve locks that are supposed to hold it in place. these seemed to be slightly bent out to allow the valve to fall a little to far. We ordered new ones. The valve itself seems to be brand new something that we were not told before. So hopefully it isn't messed up too, but it looked ok on visual inspection. We won't get the new valve locks (some call valve retainers, just two half moon pieces that hold the valve in place to keep it from falling to far) until Tuesday, so I was wondering if you people believe this could be the cause for all my troubles or if it is just ANOTHER issue I got to fix?:

 

[da1sexmonk83]

In case anyone does run across this problem again it WAS the Valve locks that caused it. We used a crows foot tool and bent it back so it would hold the rocker to keep the valve springs compressed (cheap $3.00 tool). We used compressed air to hold the valve up in place, but if you don't have a compressor you can hold it up with a long piece of bailing wire (just be careful, losing the valve will force you to pull the head). The locks are a b*tch to put into place, we used a retrieval tool (three pronged thing that you push the one in and they extent, when you release they retract and hold something firmly, as well as a magnet grabber (long antenna like thing with powerful magnet on the end), and some probes to get the stupid locks in the right place. We then replaced the rocker arms and it was done. 150 psi all around WITH rockers in. Car started and ran fine.

I want to thank everyone for all your help and hope this threat helps someone else someday!

Sincerely,
Lindsay

 

[Defiant]

Second, the posting policy on this site is STUPID. I would like the whole community to see my post *sigh*.

Glad you figured it out. As explained, "everyone" sees this forum. We think clueless noobs coming in here and ripping-off our members by using the Classifieds to lie is stupid, too. C'est la guerre.

We also have stupid rules about avatars. Please read-up on them.

And of course, welcome to DSMtuners.

 

[GVR4592]

In case anyone does run across this problem again it WAS the Valve locks that caused it. We used a crows foot tool and bent it back so it would hold the rocker to keep the valve springs compressed (cheap $3.00 tool). We used compressed air to hold the valve up in place, but if you don't have a compressor you can hold it up with a long piece of bailing wire (just be careful, losing the valve will force you to pull the head). The locks are a b*tch to put into place, we used a retrieval tool (three pronged thing that you push the one in and they extent, when you release they retract and hold something firmly, as well as a magnet grabber (long antenna like thing with powerful magnet on the end), and some probes to get the stupid locks in the right place. We then replaced the rocker arms and it was done. 150 psi all around WITH rockers in. Car started and ran fine.

I want to thank everyone for all your help and hope this threat helps someone else someday!

Sincerely,
Lindsay

Your choice of tools is what made installing the valve locks a pain in the ass. I put some oil on them so they stick, drop them in with my fingers, and use a small pick to get them positioned, but they usually just slide right into place.

 

[da1sexmonk83]

Well here is my newest issue, when we drive the car SMOKES really bad. It is white ish smoke and some of it is coming from the engine bay. The car seems to run fine for the most part (it is a little sluggish and has slight miss at idle), it is running on about 6 or 7 pounds of boost, but as soon as boost is achieved it drops off back to zero (it doesn't hold boost). I wasn't sure if that was normal, this is my first turbo car. Oh, and the Engine is fully rebuilt so I was told it MIGHT smoke because of that.

The turbo as stated at the top of this article is a Bullseye 50 trim TO4B



I Just went out to the car after finding the correct map for vacuum hoses and put the wires in the correct positions. All of them were right except for two of them from the EGR solenoid. The one that leads from a T to the back of the sensor to the EGR valve and to A, which is on the intake (closest to the solenoid). The other was the passenger side front hose leading away from the Solenoid to the EGR valve (and mounts in front of the Valve). This didn't considerable change the idle it is still a tad lumpy, but no more than my old sunfire was on idle and i traded it in about 40,000 miles after it started doing that (not for that reason though). Anyway, haven't driven it since then yet, still have to find an oil leak.