Rear binding and vibrating bad

[white90gsx]

Well I don't believe the tranny has been out but I can not guarantee anything but what I do know is that the transfer case has been replaced to a different spline transfer case to make it stronger weather is a 23 or a 21 not sure I don't know what one is stronger. So this bearing not there and allowing the shaft to come out is this a major problem? After follow the steps I was given I think it maybe safe to say its my rear diff.


Edit- And a 4 bolt rear was done.

 

[4pistons]

the transfer case has been replaced to a different spline transfer case to make it stronger weather is a 23 or a 21 not sure

If the car is a '93 it came with a 23 spline t-case. Only the '90 and early '91s had 21 spline, so I don't understand what got changed.

So this bearing not there and allowing the shaft to come out is this a major problem?

Obviously not if your output shaft is still good. It is NOT causing the problems you are having.

Here's my theory:
Your trans was disassembled before and the center diff was welded, but someone didn't reinstall that ball. Your tire skipping indicates a locked center diff but the output shaft looks good. The ONLY way to tell if I'm right is to take the trans apart and check it. You can't do "checks" to tell if it's welded. If it is, then your tire skipping is normal.

BUT, BUT, BUT.... all the checks we've given you can't GUARANTEE the condition of the center diff. It just INDICATES conditions. The only real way to know is to inspect it.

I think you need to get your car over to a DSM specific shop and have it looked at. Other wise you, and us, are just guessing.

Rick - '91 GSX

 

[white90gsx]

Well I don't think I have a welded center diff because if I did they would of been skipping before all of this I was driving the car for about 2 months before all of this and I think my diffs aren't welded because right outside my garage if a big open dirt road and when I would spin the tires on it one front and one rear would spin. Theres no dsm garages around my area.

 

[Auto RS T]

Rick is right. At this point the only way to find out what is wrong is to physically take whatever you want to look at apart for a visual inspection.

My money is on you needing to inspect the center differential. Which is in the transmission. You can do it with the trans in the car, but this isn't a job for someone without good mechanical knowledge.

 

[white90gsx]

Well I don't understand why people keep weeding out the rear diff. The rear whines all of a sudden and makes noises like metal is binding when I go back and forth real slow- it never did this before. Plus EVERY inspection for the center diff has passed-no binding, no grinding, no worn shaft and perfect wheel movement plus has clean gear oil. When I was driving the car the other day before I started tearing into it when I go from pavement to dirt the front wheels kick out a little bit meaning that the rear is holding back the front wheel because if the front wheels were holding back the rear wheels they would break loose when driving onto gravel.I highly doubt that a center diff will cause the front wheel to spin a little faster causing everything to bind. I inspected my transfer case today and it moves fine. I also dropped my drive shaft today and I'm breaking down every u-joint and replacing with new ones as well as the 2 carrier bearings.

I GREATLY appreciate all your help Rick and Jim so please don't misunderstand me.

Can I pull the rear cover to inspect the gears and look for binding?

I am no professional by all means at drivetrain problems but I do have common sense and good mechanical and dsm knowledge and to me it feels and sounds like the rear diff. So can you please help me weed out the rear diff if this is or isn't the problem because I can swap a rear in 1 hour but a tranny I've never touch them on the dsms yet?

 

[4pistons]

Well I don't understand why people keep weeding out the rear diff....... I am no professional by all means at drivetrain problems

You can't say those sentences in the same statement. Either you want our opinions or you already have it figured out yourself.

We base our opinions on experience and what you tell us. Sometimes it points right to a problem and sometimes YOU have to do alot of work to figure out what's wrong no matter how many internet opinions you get.

DSM rear diffs rarely go bad. They're not the weak link in DSMs. Does that mean there's no way yours is bad?? No! It COULD be. The rear diff is a viscous coupling, much like the one in the trans. It doesn't "break" and leave shrapnel. It quits working and you have no "posi" in the rear. No vibration, no clunking. You already said the fluid level is good, there isn't much else to do except take the rear cover off and inspect the gears to be sure they're not damaged. That's easy, you don't need us for that.

A rear diff in ANY car can't "hold back" the front wheels. The only way one could drag the other is if it was severely damaged and you'd KNOW it was bad. The ring and pinion gears are massive (relative to trans and t-case gears) they don't just "bind". The center diff and the VC distribute power front and rear. When one of them goes bad you get unever power distribution.

I think we've pointed out about all the possibilities we can. It's gonna be up to you to investigate each one and determine what the problem is.

Rick - '91 GSX

 

[white90gsx]

Yes I think you right for the most part. Tomorrow I'm going to inspect the rear gears. I've come to the conclusion that the clucking was the driveshaft hitting off the floor due to really bad carrier bearings. My brother which is into 4wd trucks said his diff blew out in 4wd and it slowed the rear down to the point were it was almost dragging. But anyways like you said I think I'm just going to have to figure this out but I just want to state if my rear is fine then the problem lies in my center diff which means the tranny has to be pulled then off to shep trans!!!!

Quick question will a binding front axle cause anything like this?

 

[white90gsx]

Well I check the rear and from looks It looks ok. I've been doing a lot of reading today and can cv joints ,bad axles or driftshaft problems cause this weird binding?

 

[4pistons]

will a binding front axle cause anything like this?

A worn axle usually won't bind. Quite the opposite, it wears out and gets loose in the CV joint and clunks. Same thing with driveshaft u-joints.

Here's a couple of links to help with the u-joint and carrier bearing fixes. If you've never been to the VFAQ site then read through it and use it as a guide. There is a wealth of DSM information here.

http://www.geocities.com/qwik93awd/Vfaq/rearendthumpfix.htm

Thump Fix Carrier Bearing

Drive Shaft Rebuild

Rick - '91 GSX

 

[white90gsx]

I'm going with a 1 piece driveshaft to eliminate 1 u-joint and both carrier bearings.

 

[white90gsx]

Well I just found a 4 bolt rear for $150 sweet. I'm going to put that in and find out if thats the problem.

 

[4pistons]

Be sure its from a manual car and not an automatic. The gear ratios are different.

Rick - '91 GSX

 

[white90gsx]

Yup its for a 5 speed I made sure.

 

[4pistons]

When I bought this car the previous owner did the 4 bolt swap

If you're talking about your '93 it came with a 4 bolt rear. What "swap" did the other guy do? Or did he "replace" the rear diff rather than swap it?

Rick - '91 GSX

 

[white90gsx]

If you're talking about your '93 it came with a 4 bolt rear. What "swap" did the other guy do? Or did he "replace" the rear diff rather than swap it?

Rick - '91 GSX

Yes that what I read that the 4 bolt rear comes in the '93s so I guess he lied or I miss understood him. Well this rear I'm getting is out of a 90 or 91 because it has the flip up head lights.

Update- I pulled rear today and still looks pretty good but if this rear isn't the problem I'm going to be selling the one I bought.

 

[white90gsx]

Well I just got back from the bone yard and realized that the junkyard employees did not understand me about the difference on a 4 bolt and a 3 bolt because I went to go look at it just now and the axles are 3 bolt. Damn I knew it was too good to be true!!!

 

[92awddsm]

My bet is still on center diff or transfer case because they are both notorious for failing and causing the same problems you are having.

Also, count the teeth on the rear diff ring and pinion gears. I wonder if someone has swapped in an auto rear diff. Tooth count on 5spd ring and pinion should be 39/11 and the auto should be 43/13.

 

[white90gsx]

My bet is still on center diff or transfer case because they are both notorious for failing and causing the same problems you are having.

Also, count the teeth on the rear diff ring and pinion gears. I wonder if someone has swapped in an auto rear diff. Tooth count on 5spd ring and pinion should be 39/11 and the auto should be 43/13.

You know what that maybe. I did find it funny right before I bought the car the guy was driving a piece of crap neon he paid $200 for and the talon was legal for the road. Maybe he swap it as a quick fix. Now I'm not familiar with rears now the ring is the main gear in the rear right? That SHOULD have 39 teeth but what are the 11.


How can I check the transfer case I still have it out of the car. I spin it and it moves smoothly.I don't know how else to check it.

 

[white90gsx]

I was watching jacks transmissions video on checking the tcase and in his video he says about spinning the spot were the input shaft goes and there should be some resistance then like a "pop" and then move.
Is this true because my tcase just spins using my finger with no resistance.


www.jackstransmissions.com

 

[4pistons]

Some good info in those videos. What he was demonstrating was the PRELOAD on the bearings. That isn't too crtitical to yours as it probably has a few miles on it.

The x-fer case is such a simple component that not much can go wrong.... except running it out of oil. Stripped splines or worn bearings is about it. There are only two bevel gears in there to make the 90 degree turn from the trans to the driveshaft, and their bearings. That's it.

As long as yours doesn't have any play in it and you don't feel any binding or grinding it's good to go. You should be able to turn the shafts smoothly and freely.

Rick - '91GSX

 

[white90gsx]

Nice good to hear. I'm going to have my one piece driveshaft made today. My girl applied for a load so I think I'm going to go with the jacks transmission rebuilt for $1500 if I put everything back on and it still acts up.

 

[white90gsx]

Well forget the driveshaft they can't make it.

 

[white90gsx]

I was putting my rear back in today and noticed the clicking noise was coming from the driver side rear tire but the funny thing it the axles weren't even hooked up yet. So I'm thinking wheel bearing but like I asked before the wheel bearing would cause any of this now would it?

 

[92awddsm]

You know what that maybe. I did find it funny right before I bought the car the guy was driving a piece of crap neon he paid $200 for and the talon was legal for the road. Maybe he swap it as a quick fix. Now I'm not familiar with rears now the ring is the main gear in the rear right? That SHOULD have 39 teeth but what are the 11.

The ring gear is the big sideways gear you see with the diff cover removed. The 11 is teeth count on the pinion gear. It is the cone shaped gear that mates to the driveshaft and drives the ring gear.

Well forget the driveshaft they can't make it.

You should be trying to build a 2 piece, not a 1 piece. A 1 piece driveshaft will cause more problems than do good.

I was putting my rear back in today and noticed the clicking noise was coming from the driver side rear tire but the funny thing it the axles weren't even hooked up yet. So I'm thinking wheel bearing but like I asked before the wheel bearing would cause any of this now would it?

With a non lsd rear, probably not. When hot, It may cause some drag but the wheel would lock up and the car would drag it eventually. Sounds like you have surpassed that point.

I am betting that someone installed an auto rear which in turn trashed both the center diff and vicious coupler. Usually, these are the only 2 parts that would cause the rear tires to bind and skip in turns. Im not the first to point you in the direction of the center diff so that should tell you something. I personally have broken every part on my car thus far except the stock 4 bolt and axles. That should also tell you something.


Have you checked to make sure neither of your rear calipers are frozen or sticking?

 

[white90gsx]

Yes because I'm able to move the wheels freely at any time. I'm going to have to count the teeth again because I think I counted 43.