rather large fmic on 14b

[Spidey]

ian - I never said that specific intercooler was any good. People were making general statements that an FMIC on a 14b isn't a good thing. I want to see someone say WHY. A good core will ADD performance, and support future upgrades, what is the problem with that? And TwoLiterV8Eater did not say a 14b is a huge turbo, he was saying get it now in preperation for a turbo upgrade. Supporting mods first

 

[ianv3]

i know you werent referring to that specific intercooler, rather fmics in general. fmics on 14b's just arent needed. they dont help with anything. if they do anything, they hurt times. its been proven time and time again.

people making the best times ever with 14b's arent running stock piping and stock intercoolers because theyre short on cash.

do you really need me to spoon feed you why or cant you figure it out yourself?

 

[kpt4321]

Originally posted by ianv3
i know you werent referring to that specific intercooler, rather fmics in general. fmics on 14b's just arent needed. they dont help with anything. if they do anything, they hurt times. its been proven time and time again.

You're wrong, and when I get a FMIC on my car I will prove it to you.

The efficiency of the stock SMIC is down in the 50% range on a long pull, such as you see in the quarter mile. That means huge charge temps. That means bad.

 

[quarter]

Originally posted by kpt4321
You're wrong, and when I get a FMIC on my car I will prove it to you.

bench racing to prove a point, sweet.

 

[kpt4321]

Originally posted by quarter
bench racing to prove a point, sweet.

Bullshit, and if you don't have something productive to say, how about you keep quiet.

Do you have any idea what the efficiency of the stock intercooler is? Have you ever put a gauge in your upper intercooler pipe, to see what the charge temperatures were?

Probably not.

I have. The stock SMIC sucks, it's inefficient, and it heat soaks like a bastard.

 

[quarter]

fact is multiple people running high 12's on 14b setups have gone from stock intercooler setup to an aftermarket setup and have had zero difference.

i dont have personal tests like you claim, im just going on what ive seen happen a handful of times.

sorry, but the 1g ic isnt as bad as youre making it out to be. http://www.gusmahon.org/html/cooler test.htm

 

[kpt4321]

That test proves that the 1g SMIC core flows well. I will not disagree with that one bit.

However, that's not everything there is to an intercooler. First of all, Gus was measuring pressure drop without putting a ton of airflow through the intercooler; put 30 lb/min through it, and I guarantee the pressure drop will be higher. You're probably looking at 1.5-2 psi of pressure drop.

Secondly, I won't argue that upgrading to FMIC on a 14b won't usually do too much for quarter mile times. Do you know why? Race gas. Hot charge air is much less detrimental to performance if you are using high octane fuel, so a more efficient intercooler doesn't make much of a difference.

In order to make good power on pump gas, you need an efficient intercooler. End of story.

 

[blackawdturbo]

Originally posted by ianv3
did you not read above? why do you believe a fmic on a 14b is a good idea.

a 14b is not a huge turbo.

adding a fmic had nothing to do wth your headgasket.

Because when you want to run a 14b at a boost level way past the peak efficiency island it help to deter knock, particularly on pump gas. Heck, a large FMIC, lots of fuel, little timing and gobs of boost makes for a killer pump gas setup and is the key IMHO to running fast if you choose to stay with a smallish turbo. Is that better?

 

[TwoLiterV8Eater]

Bringing this one back from the dead, kinda.

I did forget to mention that I took 3 tenths off my ET with my 14b, FMIC and PUMP GAS. I usually run race gas at the track but for some reason my fastest pass was made on pump. This was quite awhile ago so the specifics are not to clear to me anymore.

KPT is pretty much correct on what he is saying. The stock intercooler is very inefficiant for a 1/4 mile pull. Do some logs, and watch your timing go down and knock go up after just a couple runs.

I still believe my headgasket failure previously mentioned had a lot to do with my FMIC. I beat on my car for several years with the stock SMIC and piping, at 18 psi sometimes creeping to 20 with no real effects. Granted the car was not that fast. After the FMIC install, i noticed improved top end but over time I noticed that the car would detonate MORE with the FMIC if i did not use race gas. If I am correct, having a denser intake charge will allow the ECU to advance the timing more and I think this played a part in my headgasket going the way of the wind.....Or maybe it was just time due to the 2+ years of racing every week at the track. Who knows.

 

[CanadianTSi]

For anyone that thinks that a big FMIC on the 14b is stupid, Just look at Arctic's setup...Massive front mount with 3inch piping and the guy just ran 12.1 on a bone stock 14b.
Can't argue with that.

 

[soulcontroller]

good old post, i was having this argument the other day with some people.

you may not notice a difference in one run on a front mount and side mount. however a few runs and your SMIC is soaked and leads to inconsistent intake temps.

if you think a fmic wont cool or flow as good as a side mount, you really have no idea what your talking about.

 

[Mackzero]

Yes, thanks for bring this post back. I like to see people argue about stuff, with no real experiense to back them up. I just did a BIG front mount on my buddies 1.8T and it made a HUGE diff. over the side mount. His side mount was larger than ours also. Anyway, a correctly designed front mount, ie. top to bottom flow being one of the best, will have less pressure drop, and will not heat soak even close to as fast as that little side mount we have stock. It is o.k. for a stock car... not a modded one.
Oh, and you can make hella power with a side mount, just can't make it for long periods of time which is needed for most racing or midnight speed runs on the highway.

 

[4gsx63]

SMIC + 14b = fast 1/4 for maybe 1 or 2 runs. After that, its starts to knock like crazy and timing taking a dump.

I will get a chance to test out 14b + FMIC in a month or two (with everything else the same). I will update you guys on this.

 

[unior]

as for the spool argument there is a possibility a fmic (if it flow well enough) would spool a 14b quicker than the stock smic - i mean if he's in there upgrading pipes and installs a higher flowing core - then who knows the pressure drop may not affect it it everythings flowing better