Random clacking coming from the Head?

[tpetrucci33]

I just purchased a 91 AWD Talon. Bought it non running and the seller stated that theres something wrong with the motor. The seller said he heard some knocking from the engine so he thought it would be a good idea to add some oil.... WRONG!!! He seriously had about 8 quarts too much!!!!!!!!!!

Who does that?!?! So now here's what is going on... I got the car to start and idle fairly easy. Idles decent and doesnt seem to miss a beat.

For the fun part... There is a random clacking noise that sounds like its coming from the valvetrain, but i could be wrong. At idle, it will clack, run fine, then clack clack, and so on....

When I give it a little rev, obviously it clacks a little more. I pulled the valve cover off and everything up top seens perfectly fine. No scoring on the camshafts or any metal shavings in the head.

Any thoughts on this? Im thinking the kid bought the car and got all rev happy and over revved the stock valvetrain, heard some knock, and added wayyy too much oil.

Something is pushing me towards a binding valvespring, bent valve (most likely not the noise because its inconsistent), or maybe a bad lifter???

I ran compression and they sit at 148, 145, 110, 149. I dropped a little cap of oil into the cylinder that had low compression and it bumped it up 35 psi. So it seems that the rings are bad there. But wouldnt a bent valve cause that cylinder to not reach it's full compression potential??

Thanks in advance for reading this. Any legitimate thoughts or ideas would be great. I'm probably going to pull the head today and take it to my buddy's machine shop to get it inspected.

Thanks!!

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Noisy lifters are notorious in these cars, but if its really loud it could very well be a valve kissing the piston. post up a video so we can hear the noise for ourselves, hopefully its not rod knock or something up with your trans. We all know how audible noises in the engine bay can sound like its coming from one area and really be another.

Another idea is to get a stethoscope and put it on the valve cover where you think the noise is coming from to verify.

 

[tpetrucci33]

Will do. I will make a video after work. It does indeed sound like a a valve slapping the piston. Maybe from an inconsistent spring or lifter? I'm not at all stressed about this. I picked up the car as a project for 500 bucks. And it half way runs!! haha I'll keep you updated. Thanks for the input.

 

[camas90gsx]

Does the noise quiet down or go away at all after being warmed up? If so i would think it would possibly be a lifter issue.Is it rpm driven,like is it worse at a certain rpm? is it constant etc..Otherwise,without hearing it it is so hard to tell.It could be piston slap,rod knock,lifters,tranny,cracked piston,something loose somewhere,idk... You could drive yourself crazy and go on youtube and listen to all the different scenarios,and see if your noise resembles anything you hear.Like urbansmiker said,a stethescope or even a long screwdriver could help you listen to and pinpoint a general area to investigate.Idk man,for your sake hopefully you got it for a good price and its just an issue in the head somewhere.

 

[tpetrucci33]

Oh, and I forgot to add this. Would all that extra oil make the lifters crap out? Just curious. And for some reason I really believe this tool was revving the crap out of the car when he first got it, he only had it for a couple of weeks before he blew it up. The trans shifts into every gear pretty well with the cluth pused in. Reverse for some reason locks me out sometimes. I have to put it in 1st,2nd, or whatever and then jump into reverse. Not sure if the trans has some type of safety lockout for reverse

Yes a good price indeed. Clean title with all components there. Drivetrain seems pretty solid. And I'm very surprised the car even started. $500 is a steal to me. It has KYB shocks and eibach springs, Apexi exhaust, and polyurethane mounts. Interior is still intact and very clean. Those alone are worth more than what I paid .

The noise does not go away at all. The sound of the noise is very consistent, but when the clacking decides to happen, is very inconsistent. Which points me towards the head rather than the trans or bottom end. Correct me if I'm wrong? Oh, ands also, The clacking is a little more consistent with more rpm, but still isnt consistent as rod knock... All the input is awesome, I really do appreciate it guys.

The noise at idle is like this "....clack...... clack clack.....clack.....clack....clack clack clack...."

The noise with more rpm is like this "Clack..clack clack clack...clack....clack clack..."

It seriously sounds like there is metal inside the valve cover being slung around!!!!

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Oh, and I forgot to add this. Would all that extra oil make the lifters crap out? Just curious. And for some reason I really believe this tool was revving the crap out of the car when he first got it, he only had it for a couple of weeks before he blew it up. The trans shifts into every gear pretty well with the cluth pused in. Reverse for some reason locks me out sometimes. I have to put it in 1st,2nd, or whatever and then jump into reverse. Not sure if the trans has some type of safety lockout for reverse

Yes a good price indeed. Clean title with all components there. Drivetrain seems pretty solid. And I'm very surprised the car even started. $500 is a steal to me. It has KYB shocks and eibach springs, Apexi exhaust, and polyurethane mounts. Interior is still intact and very clean. Those alone are worth more than what I paid .

The noise does not go away at all. The sound of the noise is very consistent, but when the clacking decides to happen, is very inconsistent. Which points me towards the head rather than the trans or bottom end. Correct me if I'm wrong? Oh, ands also, The clacking is a little more consistent with more rpm, but still isnt consistent as rod knock... All the input is awesome, I really do appreciate it guys.

The noise at idle is like this "....clack...... clack clack.....clack.....clack....clack clack clack...."

The noise with more rpm is like this "Clack..clack clack clack...clack....clack clack..."

It seriously sounds like there is metal inside the valve cover being slung around!!!!

typing clack clack isnt gonna tell us anything, video would be nice. i hope you drained that oil and put new in by now.

i will tell you i had an RPM varient ticking sound that i thought could hve been lifters/rod knock, and then my 3rd 4th sleeve in the trans granaded. well the sound went away hahahaha.

 

[tpetrucci33]

Lol well I'm at work right now. An hour away from home. I'll try and get a vid up asap. I haven't drained the oil actually. Not too worried about it. The damage is already done. Who knows how long this kid was driving it for like this!!!

Im not too savvy with transmission components. It will definitely be a learning process when that time comes around.

Also, just a thought... Is it possible to pull the motor, trans, and t-case without a lift or a cherry picker? If not, can it easily be done with a cherry picker? I currently don't have access to a lift at the moment.

Thanks

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Lol well I'm at work right now. An hour away from home. I'll try and get a vid up asap. I haven't drained the oil actually. Not too worried about it. The damage is already done. Who knows how long this kid was driving it for like this!!!

Im not too savvy with transmission components. It will definitely be a learning process when that time comes around.

Also, just a thought... Is it possible to pull the motor, trans, and t-case without a lift or a cherry picker? If not, can it easily be done with a cherry picker? I currently don't have access to a lift at the moment.

Thanks

Trans comes off without one it only weighs 120lbs , not sure you can get the motor out without one its pretty heavy. To take the trans off you need to remove the subframe, tcase, DP, starter, axels and both front wheels. It sounds harder then it is, ive done it twice now and i feel like ive got a good handle on it got the trans out in a total of 2 hours. Bring someone experienced if you can to guide you, but doing things yourself is the best way to learn. Im betting its valves or lifter, your trans is unlikely, but possible i suppose. Is this car stock? do you have any info on it?

 

[tpetrucci33]

Sweet I'll give it a go maybe next week. But for now, a vid and pulling the head off is what's going down today. The car has minor stuff. Looks like the engine has been pulled before, and the exhaust studs had been removed and put back on a few times as well. So I think it's safe to assume that this car has had a setup or 2 in its days. No bigge at all though. As far as I know, everything is stock. All I can see is poly motor mounts, kyb shocks/eibach springs, and an apexi exhaust. Lol oh yea, a powder coated valve cover.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Sweet I'll give it a go maybe next week. But for now, a vid and pulling the head off is what's going down today. The car has minor stuff. Looks like the engine has been pulled before, and the exhaust studs had been removed and put back on a few times as well. So I think it's safe to assume that this car has had a setup or 2 in its days. No bigge at all though. As far as I know, everything is stock. All I can see is poly motor mounts, kyb shocks/eibach springs, and an apexi exhaust. Lol oh yea, a powder coated valve cover.

Very nice, let us know what you find!

 

[J_HEATH]

sticking lifters maybe. But by what you said about low compression and then adding oil and it jumped up, well I'm leaning towards a bad rod bearing and the rod is knocking. Which would cause the piston ring to wear do to the improper movement of the rod.

Easy thing to do to check is pull the spark plugs out. Spin the crank by hand (1/2 ratchet) and get every piston to TDC (top dead center). Place a long phillips head screw driver into where the spark plug goes you'll see it go up and down, when it is at its peak and starts to come back down bump it back to its peak, that cylinder is now at TDC. Do this to each cylinder, when you have your piston at TDC and the screw driver is at its peak press down on the screw driver. The piston should not move, but if you have one that moves even a little then 99% believe that the rod bearing is gone.

Or buy new lifters and install them and see if that fixes it. Be sure to "milk" them to lub them before you install them though.

 

[tpetrucci33]

Nice diy. I will give that a shot as well. Thanks for the support guys. As far as the head goes, I found one in 'good condition' for $75. Im going to go pick it up regardless if I need it or not . I tend to stack up on spare parts.

And the quest begins!!!!

 

[Archer Fabrications]

i just have over looked the first part in the OP about the compression, was that added later? since knowing that now, i move my theory to rod bearings also, J heath, good idea on the piston check, i might do that myself just for sanity checks.

 

[bryanwheat]

Take a video and post it here before removing anything.

 

[tpetrucci33]

Will do good sir. I have to say, when it does make that clank, its very violent! Also, the clank is higher pitched in comparison to a consistent rod knock. Just fyi if that helps any. Thanks!!

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Will do good sir. I have to say, when it does make that clank, its very violent! Also, the clank is higher pitched in comparison to a consistent rod knock. Just fyi if that helps any. Thanks!!

give us a video, while your doing the video (not necessesairly while filming) check the oil pan with a screw driver and listen to see if its coming from down there. Do the same for the Valve cover, at least find out WHERE its coming from. we will try and help as much as we can but until we hear it for ourselves we cant really help much, sadder thing is that even video recordings, which are most of the time taken by cell phones. even small noises sounds like an engine is grenadeing to the viewers ...

 

[tpetrucci33]

yes indeed this is true. I'd use my HD Sony Camcorder.... But IDK who the hell took my charger?!?!?! Haha The EVO 3D phone isnt too bad in my opinion. I'll try out all the tips above.

 

[mickey]

^ +2 Video! Video! Video! Video! Video! (Jerry show)

 

[tpetrucci33]

!! Feels like peer pressure! hahahaha Don't worry guys. I'll get the video up as soon as I can. Today is a day for 4 cups of coffee

 

[Archer Fabrications]

!! Feels like peer pressure! hahahaha Don't worry guys. I'll get the video up as soon as I can. Today is a day for 4 cups of coffee

i once knew this kid from temecula named michael novagratic. think thats how u spell it, u know that kid? dunno if its a big or small place

 

[tpetrucci33]

Doesnt ring a bell at all sorry .. Gotta love the IT industry. Starbucks coffee machine on tap!! hahaha just about the only thing that pushes me through the day.

http://youtu.be/wdlxd9427w4

PLEASE FOLLOW THE LINK ABOVE TO VIEW THE VIDEO

 

[camas90gsx]

Will do good sir. I have to say, when it does make that clank, its very violent! Also, the clank is higher pitched in comparison to a consistent rod knock. Just fyi if that helps any. Thanks!!

Rod knock is not always consistent,the last time i had it it was only at about 3000 rpms when i would let off the throttle. Just drop the pan and check for rod play or bearing damage.The easiest way to know for sure is to drop the oil and see if there are metal flakes that resemble glitter.If there is glitter then it is definately bottom end.
The simple fact is that every time you try to crank that engine it is doing more and more damage if it is a rod,spun bearing,wrist pin,etc... You could be turning a simple fix into a major engine rebuild. Im only saying this because i've been through this before and i know from experience. Just drain all of the oil and inspect it for glitter or metal pieces,it sounds like you need to get that oil out of there anyways.And then if that isnt it it is just a process of elimination,you can get the worse case scenario out of the way first off.I hope this helps man

 

[NHerron]

Wowsers. That's gnarly.

Sounds like some serious rod knock, I doubt the crank is reusable. That sucks, but hey $500 is a damn steal. I noticed the oil pressure gauge isn't working?

 

[Archer Fabrications]

your rods are effed. dont turn on that car again until you tear apart that motor.. its making me cry listening.

 

[tpetrucci33]

So its presumably rod knock. That's what ill go with for now until further inspection. I've got a guy selling a complete turnkey setup, rebuilt head, and a block with good compression for $500. Going to go check it out maybe today or sometime this weekend.

After I pull this motor, its going straight to the machine shop to see if its salvagable. If so, I'm going with a billet crank, turbo turf rods, and weisco hd pistions ftmfw!!!

Just a thought.... Could it possibly be something with the balance shaft? I just read a thread and the guy had similar symptoms as mine. IDK.. What do you guys think?