Questions about putting suspension back together

[XC92]

I'm finally putting the suspension back on my '92 Talon TSi AWD. I'm going to start with the stabilizer bar, using a set of new ES poly bushings. Thing is both the FSM and Haynes say you have to remove the t-case to do this. I did actually remove it, but only to drop the trans so I could replace the clutch. That's done, and the t-case is back on. (Did it today, and it was harder than I expected because it's tough to lift it into position working under the car on jack stands, had to use a floor jack.)

Will this make it hard or impossible to get the stabilizer back on? I looked at the space where the bar goes and I don't see a problem getting it through. Is it the curve in the bar that requires the t-case to be removed? I'd REALLY like to avoid having to remove and then reinstall the t-case again, especially since I'm going to have to do it yet another time to drop the trans again to fix an issue with it.

Also, dumb question, but how do you tell which side of the bar is which? I stripped and painted it so any markings are gone. Is it obvious because the other way won't work when you try to connect it to the control arm link?

Finally, which grease should I use for the new ball joints, stabilizer bar link connectors and tie rod ends? That's 8 new ball joints so I want to get it right. Should I use the same grease for the propellor shaft yoke, or something else? I'm leaning towards Lucas Heavy Duty but Red & Tacky also seems good. I'm probably going to buy their mini cartridge multiset that comes with 2 heavy duty and 1 red & tacky, so I can use either.

In case it matters, I drive somewhat but not too aggressively (tight turns and quick acceleration), don't race or launch, and don't go off-road or through mud or water much if at all. We do get a lot of snow here though, and it rains a lot, and is a s low as 0F in winter and high as 100F in summer.

 

[Mech Addict]

I think you will need the xfer out, (And down pipe) thought I was also replacing my steering rack when I took the stabilizer out. I tried to wrestle it out without removing the xfer, but couldn’t figure it out, so followed the FSM. Removing the rack is really fun, with three different fasteners ( pinch bolt and two fluid fittings) to access by laying on the motor and reaching way down between the intake and firewall to try and get a wrench on with a little room to turn it. Oooof!

 

[AWD-Tony]

You can’t mix up how it’s oriented. The hump goes on top and the ends where the link bolts to face forward. Don’t think it can be done w tcase on but I could be wrong

If they have zirc fitting, you’ll need a grease gun

 

[XC92]

I actually just removed the rack to remove the subframe. Not TOO hard but very messy and tight there. I did it from below, which I suspect is easier (just be careful that steering fluid doesn't get in your eyes). Both are back on now. I'll try to put the bar back on with the t-case on. If it doesn't want to go in, I'll have to remove the case.

Is it obvious which side is which on the bar?

You can’t mix up how it’s oriented. The hump goes on top and the ends where the link bolts to face forward. Don’t think it can be done w tcase on but I could be wrong

If they have zirc fitting, you’ll need a grease gun

I certainly hope you're wrong as it's going to be a pain getting the case off and on again!

And I have a grease gun, and they all have Zerks. But, which grease, for the various ball joints and u-joints?

 

[AWD-Tony]

Floor jack under the tcase helps. Hump goes up and bar end link faces forward

I just use valvoline heavy duty. Had it for my jeep so I didn’t bother getting another one. You’ll be fine using what ever grease

 

[XC92]

So, I was able to fit the stabilizer bar through the gap between the top of the t-case and steering rack without any problem. Literally took less than 10 seconds. It actually went through both ways, the right and the wrong way (I'm a bit spatially challenged so I had to see it in place to tell which way was correct), quite easily.

Not sure why others weren't able to do this or why the FSM and both Haynes and Chilton say you have to drop the t-case. I hope I didn't do something wrong and now have to undo it all and redo it. I'll know when I reinstall the newly derusted and painted control arms and it'll either work or it won't.

Now I know why everyone's complaing about how hard it is to install the bar with the ES bushings. Those things are pretty hard and seem a bit bigger. I finally managed to do it, but only with a 6" c-clamp and first temporarily connecting one of the brackets without the bushing so the other one would be level.

I even had to use a rotary tool grinding stone to enlarge one of the bolt holes as the alignment was a bit off. Thankfully I took off metal on the side of the bolt hole away from the edge, so it didn't risk tearing the metal between the hole and edge. It was only around 1/16" or so, so I think it should hold.

So, the t-case is on, along with the stabilizer bar, and I also reinstalled the exhaust pipe (I ended up removing the entire length as I didn't want to put too much stress on it since it's pretty rusty and probably needs to be replaced soon). Now all that's left is the control arms, strut assemblies, CV axles, knuckles ball joints, connecting links, tie rod ends, calipers, rotors and wheels. And the air can. Then I get to see if 4 months of hard work paid off.

Btw I picked up a 3-pack of Lucas grease today, 2 heavy duty and 1 red & tacky. I'll probably use the red in the ball joints and strut mounts and the heavy duty in the prop shaft u-joints.

Also new wipers, 2 Rain-X Advantedge in the front and a PIAA in the rear.

 

[Mech Addict]

Nicely done. Still working outside? Where I live we’re getting winter now: 4” on the ground and teens in the morning. Soon to be 2’ and minus 20. One of the reasons I chose an AWD sports car. In stock form, the dsm actually have good ground clearance, too. Where did you end up getting the suspension parts from? Working within a budget, or “damn the torpedoes “? I will likely do struts and brakes (with 92.5 front upgrade) next Spring, once I can bike to work again. Post photos of your car.

 

[XC92]

The visible parts of the car have yet to be restored so photos of them wouldn't do justice to the work I've put in, which has been almost entirely under and inside the car, e.g. suspension, brakes, clutch, subframe structures, lots of derusting and painting, bushings, etc. It'll make the care drive much better but not look any different externally.

I'll get to it eventually but it's going to be a major undertaking, with the hood and fenders having cracked paint that looks like a dry lake bed that'll probably have to be stripped down and redone. Plastic body parts have lots of scuffs and scratches, and there are lots of dents all-around. Plus, much cleaning to be done.

I've been very near Jackson, Yellowstone and Grand Teton, in my Talon in fact, many years ago. It was either late September or early October and I recall it getting pretty chilly at night. Beautiful country out there, it goes without saying, lots of great roads to drive in a DSM, I'm sure.

One of the reasons I bought my AWD Talon was because it snows and rains a lot here in NYC and I wanted something that could handle it but also be fun to drive. Back then there weren't many options that covered both. Never regretted that decision. I lived in Seattle for many years and it served me well there too. You haven't lived till you've driven up Mount Rainier in winter in a DSM, with snow banks taller than a luxury bus.

Anyway, I got fairly standard suspension parts, Moog, KYB and ES. I kept the original control arms, stabilizer bar and coils and replaced everything else, bushings, ball joints, tie rods, struts, mounts, etc. Derusted and painted all of it, along with all the front subframe members (I'll get to the rest of the rear next year when it warms up). Rebuilt all four calipers completely. They look brand new.

There's still a lot to do, fixing trans issues, new pads and rotors on all four wheels, replacing belts including TB & WP, some more cleaning and derusting, the body work I mentioned, etc. But for now I'm happy. And to think that this started with the car really only needing a new clutch. Funny how that works.

Just a couple more days' work and it should be done!

 

[Mech Addict]

I originally hail from the Boston area, so I know your weather exactly. 25F there can feel like 10 below here. And yes, nice roads to drive around here when you get outside the towns (meaning most everywhere) and almost no police.
At least take photos now to post later for the before/after effect when you get it all tidied. I wish I had taken more of my car’s interior, which was a basket case and now looks almost normal.

 

[XC92]

My experience with western mountain area cold is that it's dry, and thus more bearable than coastal cold (and I've lived on both coasts, colder parts). Sure, it snows a ton in the mountains, but it's drier in my experience. Of course I've only spent short periods of time each time I've been out there, so you're the expert. I do know that when it gets much below 50F here, it's miserable working on the car, all the more so if it's damp let alone raining. So I've been rushing to get the rest done before the cold and wet is here for good.

As for tickets, I've only gotten a handful of speeding tickets in my life, and one of them was in Wyoming, years ago, on my way to Devil's Tower Monument from Yellowstone, on a nice and mostly empty back road (driving interstates is a waste of these cars' capabilities). Driving the Talon of course. I think I was doing around 90 in a 50. Cop gave me a ticket but smiled at me as if to say he understood why I'd be speeding on this road in this car. On the same cross-country trip I briefly took it up to 125 on a straight and flat eastern Montana road.

I'll try to post some photos.

Btw my car photo was taken in Montana, somewhere between Rocky Mountain National Park and Helena.

 

[Mech Addict]

That was perhaps when MT had no daytime speed limits?
I literally gave away my 69 Dodge Power Wagon because I lost enthusiasm for wrenching on it in the cold.(W200 w/ 383 cid; what a beast).
I intend much road trips over the western US withmy gsx.

 

[XC92]

Well, summer of '92, long time ago, DSM-wise. And it was only for 5-10 seconds. I'm not trained to maintain such a speed and it wasn't the autobahn, but I just had to see what it could do. Total white knuckles, but I'm glad I did it. I've always wondered how fast the stock AWD turbo manuals could actually go. I doubt it's actually 145, the max on the speedometer gauge. Obviously modded ones can go much faster on the track. Do they break 200?

I put some more parts on the car today, despite the sub-50 temp and steady rain. All the front subframe members. Also cleaned and derusted some remaining parts, especially the knuckles. I was going to take them completely apart and clean everything properly and paint them, but I need to get the car out of the neighbor's driveway in a few days so I'll have to do that later. I've replaced bearings but there are always snags and I didn't want to risk it. Not critical.

It's a race against time in terms of worsening weather and the neighbor, but I think I'm a day or two away from complettion of "Phase One". Later phases will consist of rebuilding the knuckle assemblies, replacing the front struts, fixing the trans, replacing the TB, WP, belts, thermostat and PCV, a tune up, replacing all fluids, finishing what I started on the rear including derusting and painting the subframe, diff carrier, diff, replacing the bushings, ball joints and struts, removing a bunch of minor dings, dents and scratches, derusting, cleaning and painting parts of the body, and replacing weatherstripping.

Yeah, lots of work left, but for now, I'm content to be able to drive it again and know that it's much better shape than before. I hope to have the rest done by summer.

Btw I installed the control arms today with the new ES bushings, and the rear bracket holes just wouldn't align, especially the short bolt. I thought that maybe this would be like with the stabilizer bar and I just had to keep at it until it fit, but then I realized that the brackets are side-specific and I was using the wrong side bracket. Does it indicate this anywhere? Anyway, I switched to the other bracket and it went in easily. The things that hold you up that you can't predict.

Speaking of which I had a bit of a mishap with a new mini grease cartridge I tried to install in my mini grease gun. The old cartridge came out but I didn't push the new one in all the way and when I tried to screw back the top it made a huge mess of things, grease everywhere. Turns out that I forgot to pull back the plunger and lock it. It's always the little things that throw you off.

Yet another issue. I reinstalled both front CV axles, but there was almost no access to the left side bearing retainer bolts. I just barely managed to tighten them down, but had to do it by feel as there was no way to ratchet down the torque wrench through the narrow gap between the left center member and exhaust pipe. Next time I'll make sure to reinstall those after the CV axle.

One could write an entire manual with all these details they left out of the official manual! At least the stabilizer link connectors installed without a snag, although the inner wrench flats are really narrow and not every wrench fit in there (I ordered Moogs). I had to go through all of mine to find one that worked, ironically one that came in a set I literally just bought.

When doing something complex for the first time, triple the amount of time you estimate it'll take you to complete it, and then add another 20%.

 

[lunq mina]

You can’t mix up how it’s oriented. The hump goes on top and the ends where the link bolts to face forward.

 

[XC92]

Thanks. I installed it several days ago in the right orientation, and the connector links today. It all looks fine. I was just curious why I was able to put it back in without dropping the t-case, which everyone claims has to be done. The bar hump points up between the top of the t-case and the bottom of the steering rack, right?

 

[pauleyman]

Btw I installed the control arms today with the new ES bushings, and the rear bracket holes just wouldn't align, especially the short bolt. I thought that maybe this would be like with the stabilizer bar and I just had to keep at it until it fit, but then I realized that the brackets are side-specific and I was using the wrong side bracket. Does it indicate this anywhere? Anyway, I switched to the other bracket and it went in easily. The things that hold you up that you can't predict.

Speaking of which I had a bit of a mishap with a new mini grease cartridge I tried to install in my mini grease gun. The old cartridge came out but I didn't push the new one in all the way and when I tried to screw back the top it made a huge mess of things, grease everywhere. Turns out that I forgot to pull back the plunger and lock it. It's always the little things that throw you off.

Yet another issue. I reinstalled both front CV axles, but there was almost no access to the left side bearing retainer bolts. I just barely managed to tighten them down, but had to do it by feel as there was no way to ratchet down the torque wrench through the narrow gap between the left center member and exhaust pipe. Next time I'll make sure to reinstall those after the CV axle.

One could write an entire manual with all these details they left out of the official manual! At least the stabilizer link connectors installed without a snag, although the inner wrench flats are really narrow and not every wrench fit in there (I ordered Moogs). I had to go through all of mine to find one that worked, ironically one that came in a set I literally just bought.

When doing something complex for the first time, triple the amount of time you estimate it'll take you to complete it, and then add another 20%.

Some of that stuff is intuitive i suppose. Some stuff not. I typically try to tighten or install stuff above brackets or other parts. Like i wont install those crossmembers or the tcase and exhaust until the axle is in.

 

[XC92]

Some of that stuff is intuitive i suppose. Some stuff not. I typically try to tighten or install stuff above brackets or other parts. Like i wont install those crossmembers or the tcase and exhaust until the axle is in.

Yeah, there are things you only learn by doing, the hard way. Those you remember though. It's good to take lots of photos too. Yesterday I was looking at a photo of the reinstalled steering rack, and something didn't look right, so I took a look at the before photo, and it was obvious that I hadn't pushed the rack connecting bolt all the way into the steering column assembly:

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I'll fix it today, which will probably require some parts to be removed to access it. Had I driven the car without catching and fixing this, for all I know the bolt would have snapped or disconnected, with potentially catastrophic results.

I wonder why it didn't go all the way in as I tightened the rack bolts down when I reinstalled it. Does the steering column assembly "float" up and down, so after loosening the pinch bolt I have to pull it down fully over the bolt, or will I need to loosen the rack bolts too?

 

[pauleyman]

Yeah, there are things you only learn by doing, the hard way. Those you remember though. It's good to take lots of photos too. Yesterday I was looking at a photo of the reinstalled steering rack, and something didn't look right, so I took a look at the before photo, and it was obvious that I hadn't pushed the rack connecting bolt all the way into the steering column assembly:

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I'll fix it today, which will probably require some parts to be removed to access it. Had I driven the car without catching and fixing this, for all I know the bolt would have snapped or disconnected, with potentially catastrophic results.

I wonder why it didn't go all the way in as I tightened the rack bolts down when I reinstalled it. Does the steering column assembly "float" up and down, so after loosening the pinch bolt I have to pull it down fully over the bolt, or will I need to loosen the rack bolts too?

You don't need to loosen the rack bolts but did you center everything up before disasembly? If you didn't you may have to undo and redo a little to get the steering wheel strait and the turn signals to function properly if memory serves. I also want to say you have to remove that clamp bolt completely to get the collar to slide down.

 

[XC92]

I'm pretty sure I got the left-right alignment right, at most a spline or two off in either direction. Are these keyed so there's only one way to push the assembly all the way onto the connection bolt?

In any case, I created a new thread for this so it's best to discuss this there:

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/r...-bolt-all-the-way-into-joint-assembly.532049/

 

[lunq mina]

I think you will need the xfer out !

Tutuapp 9apps Showbox​

 

[XC92]

I think you will need the xfer out !

Which post are you replying to? The stabilizer bar's already installed, in the subframe brackets and to the connector links, which in turn are connected to the control arms.

Are you referring to my steering bolt issue?