PS belt falling off

[greenmeanie99]

Yea since my rebuild my PS belt fell of twice so far when driving the car. At idle it didn't show any signs of moving around or what not so it has to happen at a higher RPM. I took the belt off and couldn't see any damage to the pulleys. Any Ideas?

 

[Locke]

check for correct tension and pulley alignment

 

[Focker420]

Its all about the tension. Lets just say i have bought and gone through like 5-8 belts by now and lets just say were lucky or cars can run without any serpintine belts . My problem was the ps belt was slipping teeth all the time. 2 things u need to check.
1. Do you have a/c equipped to your car? (i had a/c but one of my line broke and it didn't work, So i noticed the a/c mounting bracket was shimmed out like 5 washers each bolt and made my alignment out so i went through belts like nothing, but only at high rpm. Started buying belts without a/c so just the crank to the ps. And worked good.
2. Its all about the tension when i was putting my belt on almost every second day i got quite good and quick at it. You need a 14 mm socket and 3\8 drive, loosen off the 2 inside bolts through the ps pulley and the one bolt on the right side of the pulley. Now put the belt on and pull the ps pulley back with your fingers. Now it helps to have a buddie put tension on while you tighten, just so the tension doesn't change. If you put too much tension on the belt you will notice the ps pulley will have deflection and will want to bend slightly towards the inside of ps pump this is why you throw belts. You want as much tension without any deflection. So i used a pry bar on the back side of the ps pump and pried off the bracket, tighten the bolts down and check tension. I'd say my belt had just a little over half an inch of movement when checked with my fingers and thats stopped my belt problem. Try this and let me know how it goes.

 

[4UH8ERS]

make sure its tight enough did you pull the power steering pump tight before securing the bolts in place? because if you didnt you might not be able to put enough tension on the belt from the tensioner alone.

 

[Locke]

roughly 0.5 inches of deflection per foot between pulley's. If you have correct belt tension and you still throw belts, and you have a good belt and good pulley's, you have an alignment problem.

 

[96RSCLIPPER]

I think that if you have a 420A, you will eventually run into belt problems. I had all those issues with slippage, throwing belts, and missaligned pulleys.

Everyone above this post pretty much covered all the usual suspects of belt problems.

I do have to add that there was one point where I changed my PS pump for one I had laying in the shed that I had taken off a junkyard car. Little did I notice that this pump had been dropped a few times and landed on its pulley. When I saw the car idle with the hood open or even under some RPMs I didn't notice it wobble at all. However, as soon as I really wound up the car to 5500 or 6000, I was throwing the belts. I went through every adjustment possible but only when I changed the pulley to the original one did the belt problems stop.

Maybe your pulley was placed under some lattral stress for some reason or the shaft on the PS is walking. Given of course that they all have some natural play in the shaft.

 

[Locke]

I think that if you have a 420A, you will eventually run into belt problems.

Not necessarily. I have not had any belt issues. I suspect I am not the only one who has not had belt problems.

Not saying I wont have belt problems, though. I have under 100k miles, and have put less than 8000 on it since I got it.

I had to change the (cursed) timing tensioner on my 1g. That does not mean all 4g63 engines will have tensioner problems.

 

[oldman]

If your belt system uses a harmonic balancer like 4G63's, I would check it for signs of seperation.

 

[Metapharstic]

I know this is kind of off topic, but I also lost my power steering belt a week or two ago. Either way, I noticed a definite gain on the pedal. I understand that the same belt that controls the power steering, also connects to the AC compressor and harmonic balancer.

I've just got two questions real quick, with that belt disconnected, what, in theory, would be my hp gain running w/o PS and A/C. And what exactly is the harmonic balancer's purpose? I haven't noticed anything horribly different besides a little more jump in the acceleration.

 

[cimotorsports]

The harmonic balancers purpose is to absorb an harmful vibration from the crankshaft, without it your bearings could possibly be damaged from excessive vibrations... as for the power steering pump, they can rob up to 6hp, so in a sense you do feel more power, the ac however doesnt rob any powersince the belt just rides on an idler most of the time unless its kicked on

 

[devvin]

There is a TSB for our cars about that. Here ya go. Hope this helps.

*************************************************************************
Power Steering - Drive Belt Problem Solutions
No: TSB-98-37A-005
DATE: October, 1998
MODEL: 1995-99 Eclipse 2.0L Non-Turbo

SUBJECT:
POWER STEERING BELT ALIGNMENT AND
TROUBLESHOOTING PROCEDURES

This bulletin supersedes TSB-97-37A-001 dated March, 1997, which should be discarded. New and/or revised information marked by " * ".
PURPOSE
This bulletin contains troubleshooting procedures for checking power steering pump pulley alignment and correcting misalignment.

SYMPTOM
The customer may complain of conditions related to misalignment of the power steering pump pulley, misalignment of the A/C idler pulley, a distorted power steering pump bracket, rapid belt wear, or the belt being thrown off the pulley.

AFFECTED VEHICLES
1995-99 Eclipse equipped with the 2.0L Non-Turbo (420A) engine

DIAGNOSIS AND REPAIR SUMMARY



Study the repair and diagnosis flow chart, then proceed with the alignment checking and repair procedures as follows.

ALIGNMENT CHECKING PROCEDURES

Vehicles WITHOUT Air Conditioning


First, visually inspect the alignment of the power steering pump pulley to the crankshaft pulley.
If belt and pulley misalignment cannot be visually verified, check the alignment with a straight edge as shown in the illustration.

Vehicles WITH Air Conditioning



Inspect the alignment of the power steering pump pulley by looking at the position where the belt rides on the idler pulley (tensioner). If the belt is not centered on the idler pulley as shown by the overhang in the side view in the illustration, the power steering pump pulley is misaligned.
REPAIR PROCEDURES
* A. Power Steering Bracket Replacement (ALL VEHICLES)


1. Refer to the service manual and remove and replace the power steering pump bracket with the new improved bracket, MR403066, then mount the pump onto the bracket. On A/C equipped vehicles, tighten the bolts to the proper torque. On vehicle without A/C, do not fully tighten the pump attachment bolts until adjusting the belt to the proper tension.

2. Install a new P/S belt and adjust to the correct belt tension (93 - 115 lbs.). If the vehicle has A/C, use the idler pulley adjustment bolt to achieve proper belt tension.

Note: The belt MUST be adjusted to the proper tension. Low belt tension may cause noise or loss of the P/S belt. Belt tension that is too high may cause abnormal wear to the P/S pump pulley shaft bearing.

3. After replacing the bracket, go back to the checking procedures, then proceed with the proper alignment procedures (section C in this bulletin) based on information gathered during alignment checking.

* B. A/C Idler Tensioner Pulley Replacement (New Wider Pulley)



Vehicles With A/C Produced Before February 2, 1998 only. Replace the pulley with the new wider idler pulley (MR398887). Use the procedures in the service manual. The wider pulley allows more surface area for the belt to ride, eliminating the chance of belt damage caused by the belt riding over the edge of the pulley.
Note: Vehicles produced after February 2, 1998 have the new wider pulley installed during vehicle production.

C. Power Steering Pump Bracket Alignment



If the power steering pump pulley is out of alignment, use the following procedures to shim the power steering pump into proper alignment.
1. Remove the bolt holding the power steering pump bracket to the front area of the engine mount. Loosen the remaining two bolts attaching the power steering pump bracket.

2. Add the necessary number of 1 mm shims between the pump bracket and the front engine mount so the pump is moved to where the pulley is in alignment.

Note: FOR BETTER PULLEY ALIGNMENT ON VEHICLES WITH AIR CONDITIONING:

a. Move the power steering pump closer to the engine (along the adjuster slot in the power steering bracket) then tighten the upper attachment bolt.

b. Tighten the two lower power steering pump bolts, last.

c. Adjust the power steering belt tension by using the idler tension pulley.

3. Go back to the diagnosis procedures to check the belt alignment again before returning the vehicle to the customer. If necessary, install additional shims as required to achieve proper alignment (2 mm maximum).

4. Verify that the repair and alignment procedures were effective by test driving the vehicle under many different conditions (highway speeds, quick acceleration, various turning situations, etc.).



* PARTS INFORMATION
WARRANTY INFORMATION
R & R and shimming of Power Steering Pump Bracket

Nature Code: 86Z Cause Code: 490

Labor Operation No. 37501000 Time Allowance: 0.8 hr.

* Air Conditioner Tensioner Pulley Replacement

Nature Code: 99Z Cause Code. 990

Labor Operation No. 55314310 Time Allowance: 0.4 hr.

Warranty Coverage: 36 months/36,000 miles.
Special Warranty Information: Normal warranty procedures apply.

 

[Locke]

Great post devvin. Keep the good stuff coming.

 

[JohnEagle]

i had the same problem. on closer inspection i found the old style p/s bracket had a hair line crack in the adjuster part. i was letting the p/s flex and the belt would fall off. i replaced the bracket with the new style which has a shorter adjusting area and the problem was finally fixed once and for all.

 

[DSM4204x4]

I own a 95 GS with 129,504 miles and the idler pulley's bearing ceased so it keeps throwing the belt so im in the prossess of getting a shorter belt to get to the ps and avoid the pulley all togather..

 

[adammethner05]

I've also had wonderful problems with my power steering pump and it's belt. I have a 95 talon, and one day I noticed some kind of gross noise that wouldn't go away. Turns out there was a bolt that held my power steering pump to the bracket that somehow worked its way entirely loose and fell out, causing the pump to wobble slightly everytime the motor turned. Finally fixed that, and a week later my belt broke. Driving without power steering was weird, I was glad when I got my belt fixed...still didn't fix the damn squeal I've had since I bought the car though.

 

[JohnEagle]

hey DSM420 i have an extra tensioner/bearing. you pay the shipping and i will send it out monday. it has about 30k on it but it rolls smooth. let me know by email please. [email protected]

 

[JohnEagle]

I've also had wonderful problems with my power steering pump and it's belt. I have a 95 talon, and one day I noticed some kind of gross noise that wouldn't go away. Turns out there was a bolt that held my power steering pump to the bracket that somehow worked its way entirely loose and fell out, causing the pump to wobble slightly everytime the motor turned. Finally fixed that, and a week later my belt broke. Driving without power steering was weird, I was glad when I got my belt fixed...still didn't fix the damn squeal I've had since I bought the car though.

are you sure the squeal is the p/s belt ? could it be the alternator belt ?

 

[adammethner05]

are you sure the squeal is the p/s belt ? could it be the alternator belt ?

That definitely could be a possibility, since I've only replaced the p/s belt but not the alternator belt since I've owned the car, but as soon as I get my AF/X UDP in the mail I'll have new belts to put on, although from what I've read there's a chance of substantial squealing from those as well. But anyways thanks a lot for the input.

 

[xstriderx]

[reviving old thread]

I see the bolts I'm supposed to loosen on the PS pump to change my belt. Unfortunately, the pulley is in the way so I can't get to the bolts on the left side of the PS Pump(looking at it from drivers perspective). How do I get to those two bolts. I've tried moving the pulley by hand but it won't budge and turning on and off the car till I get lucky just ain't working for me.

 

[oldman]

[reviving old thread]

I see the bolts I'm supposed to loosen on the PS pump to change my belt. Unfortunately, the pulley is in the way so I can't get to the bolts on the left side of the PS Pump(looking at it from drivers perspective). How do I get to those two bolts. I've tried moving the pulley by hand but it won't budge and turning on and off the car till I get lucky just ain't working for me.

You can either tap the starter until they line up OR you can stick a 1/2" drive/extentension through the hole on the driverside wheel well splash guard and rotate the engine (CW ONLY) until they line up.

 

[Dave532]

Not to be insulting but I haven't seen it mentioned yet and it is a free and easy check...

Are you absolutely sure it is the correct belt?