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Problem with my 2G when it hits 23lbs

Posted by talonz27, Dec 22, 2007

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  1. talonz27

    talonz27 Proven Member

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    Joined Aug 14, 2006
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    so when i drive my car around and do a pull in 1st or 2nd its fine, when i do a pull in 3rd and hit 23lbs it feels like it looses all power almost like i just took my foot off the gas pedal and i hear my bov open. Also If im driving and give it half throttle and let the boost build up as soon as it hits around 15lbs my bov starts opening but if i give it full throttle it doesnt mess up till it hits the 23lbs then looses everything.
    I am running a SBR-G50 and the bov i am using is a greddy knock off. i also had a 1g bov and it did the same thing.
    I have done a boost leak test to 20lbs and i had 1 leak at the bov and i have fixed it and still have the problem.
    thanks for any help you guys can give me....
     

    258  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.774 @ 110.000 · 2G DSM
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  2. GVR4592

    GVR4592 Proven Member

    4,049
    68
    Joined Oct 2, 2004
    Bellingham, Washington
    Sounds like a tuning issue, my guess is a lot of knock. Do you have a datalogger?
     
    GVR4592

    614  0

    1992 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    manual · Galant VR-4
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  3. talonz27

    talonz27 Proven Member

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    Joined Aug 14, 2006
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    its not getting any knock (says my stock boost gauge)
     

    258  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.774 @ 110.000 · 2G DSM
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  4. GVR4592

    GVR4592 Proven Member

    4,049
    68
    Joined Oct 2, 2004
    Bellingham, Washington
    Do you have a datalogger?
     
    GVR4592

    614  0

    1992 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    manual · Galant VR-4
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  5. TALONTRAX

    TALONTRAX Proven Member

    457
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    Joined May 16, 2006
    Southampton, Pennsylvania
    Maybe your bov. spring is limited to 23 psi, & when you hit 23 psi, the bov starts opening & dumping your boost ? ? ? :talon:
     

    522  0

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.880 @ 100.300 · 2G DSM
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  6. Loewen21

    Loewen21 Proven Member

    205
    1
    Joined Jul 24, 2006
    Steinbach, MB, Canada
    Well if your BOV is opening at 15 pounds like you say it is and you feel a loss in power, im wondering if your BOV is recirculated? If not thats going to be like one freakin huge boost leak.
     
  7. talonz27

    talonz27 Proven Member

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    Salt Lake City, Utah
    i dont have a datalogger, and it is recirculated. i dont have a clue why its doing this its so frustrating!
     

    258  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.774 @ 110.000 · 2G DSM
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  8. silverbullett

    silverbullett Proven Member

    239
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    Joined Sep 29, 2006
    Hayward, California
    Mine felt that way when I hit fuel cut. Mine did it in 2nd gear though.
     

    395  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 2G DSM
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  9. talonz27

    talonz27 Proven Member

    118
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    Joined Aug 14, 2006
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    it shouldnt be hitting a fuel cut though, with that chip i have.
     

    258  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.774 @ 110.000 · 2G DSM
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  10. PieEyedPiper

    PieEyedPiper DSM Wiseman

    4,317
    43
    Joined Nov 13, 2004
    North Bay Area, California
    Please get a logger.

    Oo, maybe santa will bring you one? ;)
     

    1K  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
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  11. silver bullit

    silver bullit Proven Member

    1,540
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    Joined Jan 27, 2006
    martinsburg, West Virginia
    What kind of injectors are you using what chip are you using(what mods for the chip) what other mods you got?
     

    716  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 2G DSM
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  12. Ravenous

    Ravenous Proven Member

    357
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    Joined Sep 20, 2003
    West Linn, Oregon
    A chip is definately not an end all for tuning. 23lbs with no way of tuning for knock or monitoring it even is just a bad idea. There are a lot of cars the still need a S-afc at least for fine tuning with a custom chip. I'd say get a logger first, see what is happening with your motor its better to know rather than assume and guestimate.
     

    513  0

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 1G DSM
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  13. Twinky-Ninja

    Twinky-Ninja Proven Member

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    Joined Apr 22, 2006
    Kaneohe, Hawaii
    Just curious.. how is your stock boost gauge an indication of knock? Is the chip programmed to display it there?
     

    321  0

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
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  14. Ravenous

    Ravenous Proven Member

    357
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    Joined Sep 20, 2003
    West Linn, Oregon
    I just noticed you have a stroker. Are the timing/fuel maps coded for a stroker?
     

    513  0

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 1G DSM
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  15. talonz27

    talonz27 Proven Member

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    Joined Aug 14, 2006
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    I have the keydiver stg 3, Yes the chip was built for the stroker. and yes the chip is programmed to display knock on the stock boost gauge. i am using 650 fic's with every supporting mod needed. chip is set at 10:5:1 with 43.5 fuel pres
     

    258  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.774 @ 110.000 · 2G DSM
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  16. ArticNemesis

    ArticNemesis Proven Member

    935
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    Joined Jan 3, 2003
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina
    2g's tune for timing advance, not knock. Our knock sensor system is quite irrational, which is why people have knowlingly recommended a logger.

    You log timing advance, and when timing gets pulled by the ECU, you know where the problem is and work from there.

    As stated above, you are walking a fine line by modifying fuel maps (chipset or whatever other means) without having a way to measure what is actually happening. Yea, you got a chip, but what if it was programmed wrong, or isn't even functioning at all.
     

    508  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 2G DSM
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  17. talonz27

    talonz27 Proven Member

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    Joined Aug 14, 2006
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    ive had more than one of the chips in the car. and it does it with all of them. if it wasnt functioning at all i'm pretty sure it would run like major poop all the time! and it only started doing this when i got the g50 on the car, before the g50 i was running a t28 at 16 lbs and it was fine. and i had to take the cover off the g50 and seal it because of that big boost leak and sh**ty design.

    i dont think im on too thin of a line that chip isnt drastically tuned. its only 10:5:1 and i'm not knockin i think im fine in that area!
     

    258  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.774 @ 110.000 · 2G DSM
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  18. ArticNemesis

    ArticNemesis Proven Member

    935
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    Joined Jan 3, 2003
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina
    That's just it, you don't know if you aren't knocking. You completely disregarded what I posted with the exception of the one thing you didn't like (Yea, it compensates for the larger injectors, however you have no idea what your timing maps are like). You NEED some sort of logging capability to make sure things are running correctly.

    16psi on a T28 isn't exactly that far off from the stock ECU's capability for adjusting without the need for an A/F controller.

    Everyone has indicated the same thing, and tried to explain you tune for timing on a 2g, not knock, because the sensor doesn't read knock correctly like a 1g.

    You came here, you posted asking for help. Numerous people posted the exact same opinion, but you disregard it on the basis that you "think" everything is fine. We can't help if you aren't willing to listen.

    Loss of power in 3rd gear @ 23psi. Sounds like timing being pulled to me(knock) or fuel cut(huge boost leak).
     

    508  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 2G DSM
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  19. talonz27

    talonz27 Proven Member

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    Joined Aug 14, 2006
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    ok, well then lets just assume for a min that it is pulling timing. what do i do next to fix the problem?
     

    258  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.774 @ 110.000 · 2G DSM
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  20. ArticNemesis

    ArticNemesis Proven Member

    935
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    Joined Jan 3, 2003
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina
    Some way to monitor your A/F ratio. Wideband O2 Setup.
    A way to adjust that said A/F ratio. SAFC, MAFT-Translator, DSMlink.
    A way to log what is going on in the ECU. Logging software. DSMlink. Palm Pilot & logging software, etc.

    Logger would be the cheapest route to confirm that you are indeed getting timing pulled, and then work from there.

    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tuning-engine-management/180544-optimal-f-ratio-quite-long.html is a good thread on optimal A/F's and such.

    The big thing with your current setup is that you have no way to confirm that the car is running at a 10.5:1 A/F ratio during WOT (which many of the knowledgeable tuners here think is too rich even.), nor that timing is in fact getting pulled when you feel the loss in power.
     

    508  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 2G DSM
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  21. talonz27

    talonz27 Proven Member

    118
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    Joined Aug 14, 2006
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    well i'll have to get a logger and see what it says. thanks for the help. i'll post back what it says on the logger.
     

    258  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.774 @ 110.000 · 2G DSM
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  22. thekellbeast

    thekellbeast Proven Member

    653
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    Joined Jun 28, 2003
    Portland, Maine
    Negative. The BOV should hold in boost at all times, until you shift. It should not be open under boost, no matter if it's recirculated or not.

    To the OP - Do a boost leak check to 30psi. I'm not sure what BOV you're using, but if you're using a 1g, do the Dodgegarage mod to it. It will hold whatever you throw at it. Don't crush it. That's old school, and the wrong way to do it.

    Edit: just saw this "and the bov i am using is a greddy knock off. " When you do your boost leak test, take off your recirc hose to make sure you're not bleeding pressure through the BOV.
     
  23. talonz27

    talonz27 Proven Member

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    0
    Joined Aug 14, 2006
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    thanks i didnt even think about taking the recirc hose off. i'll give it a try and go to 30 lbs.
     

    258  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.774 @ 110.000 · 2G DSM
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  24. thekellbeast

    thekellbeast Proven Member

    653
    6
    Joined Jun 28, 2003
    Portland, Maine
    Weeeelll... now that I think about it, you have to take the recirc hose off to do a boost leak test, since you're taking the intake pipe off afterall. My bad.
     
  25. Scoped_GST

    Scoped_GST Proven Member

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    Joined Oct 18, 2004
    Thousand Oaks, California
    ive got my money that its pulling timing. the similar thing happened to my friend with a chip when he put on a bigger turbo, except he went from 16g to a PTE 60-1. good luck in finding out what it is tho.
     
    Scoped_GST

    439  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    14.815 @ 92.230 · 2G DSM
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