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2G Poor Idle No Rev Up and Dies

Narish Do Urden

Proven Member
162
0
Dec 13, 2011
Omaha, Nebraska
Read a little bit here and there
I have a 1996 EclipsebGST Spyder.
I purchased this vehicle with a crank no start issue
What I've done.
I replaced the netal box ECU that was Bad with a 99 Black Box ECU
I used Gofer's diagram to swap the spark plug wires to the Reverse order.
I used another guide I found and rewired the injector pin order to match the reverse plug order

My issue now is the car is starting up with a poor idle mellows out a little bit and idles fine, I get no Tach Readings only the Gas and Boost Guage are showing me any movement. There is no CEL.
When I step on the Gas to rev dies.

I have some ideas I plan on doing to test out some problems.
Wanted to get some input.

Could it maybe be that I didn't need to switch the injector pins?
 
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Narish Do Urden

Proven Member
162
0
Dec 13, 2011
Omaha, Nebraska
I will be doin a Compression test and Re Timing, the way it idled did remind me of the sound of it being miss timed.

So I did a quick look through this morning before work......
The freaking Alternator Belt is a small belt connected only to the Alternator and the Water Pump, and it's tight. There's a red Flag right there, it's not on the crank pulley at all so it wasn't spinning when the car was on, previous owner was working on this car with no Idea what they were doing.
I'm even dumber as I didn't even look into it.

Makes me wonder if they tried to retime it, because the AC pulley and powersteering have no belts. So I'm definitely gonna start there and get everything back on
 
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Nate355RS

Proven Member
446
50
Oct 25, 2012
Salem, Virginia
Sounds like you're getting it figured out. If you suspect your firing order is off try switching the plug wires around. I'd go from 4,1,2,3 to 3,2,4,1 or vice versa. If you switch plugs around and it idles better you'll know you found at least part of the problem.
 

Narish Do Urden

Proven Member
162
0
Dec 13, 2011
Omaha, Nebraska
I guess it would go without say, but being miss timed it would throw codes for MAF?
Buddy of mine said it's throwin a code now pertaining to the MAF.
Not saying it couldn't be a different separate issue, but could it also be BECAUSE it's miss timed?

I'm off tomorrow so that's probably when I'll make sure it's timed.
 

Narish Do Urden

Proven Member
162
0
Dec 13, 2011
Omaha, Nebraska
**Update**
Compression Good
Timing Good

I swapped the injector pins BACK to the original way, left the plug wires the reversed set up, wouldn't start with it's normal set up.
It revs up with if you repeatedly tap the gas.
Finds normality if you can get it to idle higher.

I have found that the MAF is NOT reading to the ECU, no voltage just dead.
Car idles itself at extremely low rpm.

So my next step is getting a MAF and seeing if the air flow evens it out. That would also explain why it's running very rich, just doesn't seem like it's getting air.

Any more thoughts after the update?
Spyder GS and GST interchangeable MAF?
 
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Narish Do Urden

Proven Member
162
0
Dec 13, 2011
Omaha, Nebraska
When I swapped injector pins I followed:
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/ecu-harness-2G.html
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/1gcasin2g95-96M2.htm

Not sure I understand what you mean, sorry I've always been so far removed from electrical stuff. So pin 5 at that sensor plug under the hood will correspond to pin 92 in the ECU wiring harness in the car? I mean I never touched anything at the harness for the ecu other than the injector pins as per that guide. I have a little time before work tomorrow so thanks for throwing that in there. Might save 75 bucks :D

Oh and in response to your previous post the fuel pressure is also good, I think it's more too much fuel not enough air. Sorry, wasn't ignoring it.

Also Boost Leak Test was performed(soap water/spray bottle) Did find my stock tubing to TB was a little loose tightened it down, but that was about it.

I also forgot to mention this is 100% stock, plastic bov and everything.
 

luv2rallye

DSM Wiseman
8,441
1,202
Jun 7, 2003
Minneapolis, Minnesota
So pin 5 at that sensor plug under the hood will correspond to pin 92 in the ECU wiring harness in the car?
Yes. Some people mistakenly connect a sensor ground of other things like an O2 sensor to ground even though they're also connected to ECU pin 92 (which is the ONLY place it should be connected). So all sensor grounds that should have been connected to ECU pin 92 are then connected to ground. This can cause a feedback loop or noisey sensor grounds on those sensors which effect their operation.

See "important note" here for explanation: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/oxygen-sensor-wiring.244376/

Another problem is if ECU internal sensor ground trace is blown: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/ecu-ground-keeps-blowing.355311/#post152055873
 

Narish Do Urden

Proven Member
162
0
Dec 13, 2011
Omaha, Nebraska
I swapped the MAF and it's reading.
The old one has a wierd smell and a ton of gunk and shit in it. It still idles horribly low, but NOW does NOT die when I hit the gas it takes a while for it to rev up though.
Still also dies when put in gear, no idle change difference from park and neutral.Still no tach reading, prob a separate issue.

So, I'm thinkin the ECU is fine and working, and gonna move into IAC, EGR, Throttle, Injectors. Also gonna do another boost leak test to double check.
 

nathan_spindler55

Proven Member
104
7
Jan 22, 2013
great falls, Montana
i just had A similair problem, car was idling poor and seemed like it was missing would almost die when i let off, also had no tach and speedo but everything else worked. turns out my resistor next to the coilpack came unplugged because my clip is broken, plugged her back in and everything good again!
 

luv2rallye

DSM Wiseman
8,441
1,202
Jun 7, 2003
Minneapolis, Minnesota
Important note to remember for future: DO NOT USE MAF CLEANER to clean your DSM MAF! It kills them. There's a warning on the newer CRC brand MAF cleaner label that even states not to use with karman vortex type MAFs (used on Mitsubishi turbo or Supra turbo MAFs). [I even talked with a Mitsubishi technician and he said same thing - just leave it alone - don't even get it wet at all with anything (wetness attracts dust which degrades it's performance) and do not blow it out with compressed air as the higher pressure can ruin it.] MAF cleaner (or wetness from some other type of cleaner sprayed in there) probably killed your old one. CRC MAF cleaner works on other type MAF's, just not our karman vortex type MAF.
 
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Narish Do Urden

Proven Member
162
0
Dec 13, 2011
Omaha, Nebraska
Dearly noted, yeah I'll be checking the resistor at around 9pm Central when I'm off work, that's too the left of the Coils me facing the car right?
I'm going to post a video of it also, just in case I'm not explaining it very well, after I check Resistor, Clean the IAC, ERG, Throttle. And gonna pop the injectors off to see if they're miscolored or anything.
 
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Narish Do Urden

Proven Member
162
0
Dec 13, 2011
Omaha, Nebraska
I took a little bit of time to check it, it's plugged in, too tired to go real in depth tonight, but I used electrical cleaner on it, the injector wiring, where the coil plugs in and made a short video of it at all revved and putting it in gear. I'm snappy in this video, I'm moving it around cause it sounded like I heard a large amount of air escaping from the intake all the sudden.
The beginning is pedal to the floor
Headlamp 40A fuse blown
I can upload a more detailed video, just let me know the areas you wanna see. I was tired and irritated, not even about the car, was work related.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.
 
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Narish Do Urden

Proven Member
162
0
Dec 13, 2011
Omaha, Nebraska
I fixed my issue from the thread
The problem by pulling the IAC it was completely burnt out.
Put in a new one and it was a little better. Still misfiring, so I figured I'd triple check spark one more time, I get to cyl 4 unplugged the wire and plug in an old plug, sure enough when I started the car it sounds fine without the wire plugged in, and it's getting spark so I put the old plug in. Ran good, I switched the injector pins at the ECU as per RRE instructions, RAN PERFECT.

My issue now is slow rev and no acceleration in drive or reverse. And I dunno what to even start diagnosing.
 
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