Please god someone tell me whats wrong

[Phaze2ECU]

Car: 92 tsi awd

Situation: Car starts fine, but as soon as it hits higher revs, comes down, stutters to a stall. used my datalogging to see that the 02 sensor was dead and i replaced it. Same thing happened. Got new plugs/wires (ngk/ngk). STILL DOES IT. Sounds like some kind of arcing or electrical ticking is coming from the injectors, could those be shot and cause this. the compression is still fine and tbelt is fine as well. It runs fine then starts missing really bad up top, then comes down and stalls basically. ANy help greatly appeciated.

edit: Ill start it, rev it a lil, then it stutters and stalls. if i try to restart it right awya, it does same thing, if i wait a minute or two itll start like new, but then do the stutter/stall if i rev it.

 

[hose101772]

Check your fuel pressure.Could be filter or pump.

 

[Phaze2ECU]

wheni play move injector # 4 around i can prevent the stutter from stalling out the car, i think it might be the clip or something, cause yesterday it shocked me wheni tocuhed it.,

 

[Phaze2ECU]

update: I slowly tested this, but its fine up until 4k rpms (whenreved in idle) after u hit/pass 4,000 itll do the stutter to a stall. only 93 octance fuel was used, plugs (bpr6es) gapped to .03, ngk plug wires for 92 talon tsi. My data logg indicated a knock sum of 20+ (usually its under 10) when i rev it (and then it starts stutte/stall) im thinking fuel issue. thanks

 

[Phaze2ECU]

Well still not working....new update...
Tried new power transistor, nothing, new coil pack, nothing.
Tested for spark in cylinders by pulling the plug wire off the indivual spark plugs while it idled. When i pulled it off cyl 4 it didnt seem to make a diff although it sounded like it was sparking, also, the coil started to spark when only this cylinders wire was removed from the plug. Every other wire, when pulled, caused a change in how the motor was running. Also, heard a metal clunk sound twice of the many times i was testing it, who knows, its going to the shop asap, im out of ideas.

 

[AL92]

These cars can get frustrating for sure.You have tried the simple stuff..
so pretty much need to get it on scope or something.
Still seems like a fuel problem since you have new wires,plugs and tried new power transistor and coilpacks unless it just bad connecion to injectors like you said.
Fuel filter is an fairly easy job to change out.Fuel pressure is a bit harder to check although B and m makes a cheap fuel pressure guage that installs easily at the fuel filter and is handy for making sure things are working right..its not great for checking when driving though just at idle.Still better than nothing and like 30bucks.Its handy when you get an afpr and start playing with fuel pressure also.

 

[Phaze2ECU]

My gueses:
Its not the power tranistor and the issue revolvs around cyl4. When i pulled that wire the coil sparked (original one). when i tried another coil i just laid it on the shock tower (does it need to be grounded). Also, when i pull the plug wire the motor doesnt seem to care, liek its constantly on 3 cyls. The ecu looks good, but who knows, its like something groundes out the cyl 4 injector constantly (theres this louder then normal zapping sound coming from betwene cyl4 injector and the tps area. Id say ####ed valve or something but compression was fine that cyl (as all others) I dunno, like i said, its going to the shop tomm promptly at 8am. Really begginning to hate the car.

 

[Phaze2ECU]

My thoughts:
Possible cas, possible ecu (although no caps melted), or some electrical occurance which grounds out injector 4 and thus runs the car insanely lean and causes detonation, the grounding coming from the coil thats sparking.

 

[GSXanimal]

Leaking or bad injector,just a guess. good luck

 

[Phaze2ECU]

I tried and injector i know works, still the same.

 

[Phaze2ECU]

Well, im going to try and keep/fix it. Im going to try a new CAS and a new coil pack before i hand it over to mitsu graveyard in hopes i can fix it myself (electrical issue). As for the knock, once its running fine electrically ill pick a nice weekend and rip it apart. Bring the head to get checked and go with the punchs from there. Hopefully its more minor then major, but either way, im going to do my best not to throw the towel in just yet. Anyone local who thinks they may know anything that can help and would like to come over, i have no prob supplying beer and food for those who solve or point me in the right direction of solving, thanks as always, Mike.

Ps. recently rebuilt shortblock for a good price anyone?

 

[crankbender]

Dude if you are gonna trash it tell me first. until that day i will try and help you.

If you are getting spark on #4 and have compression but are not firing it is 1 of 2 things....air or fuel.

Now knowing that you have fuel problems with that clip (they should NEVER shock you) you should look there.

Run the car with the wire off the #4 plug then as soon as you shut it down pull the plug...it should be wet (only run for a min or so). if it is not wet go to the junkyard and get a clip out of one there and rewire it to your setup (do a nice clean job here please) then try the known good injector again.

To save yourself some time take that clip off the injector and inspect it visually. Don't jump to conclusions we will get you through this...

 

[Phaze2ECU]

I already pulled the injector clip off and it seemed fine, since the car runs the same with the #4 wire on or off the spark plug, im assuming its got to do with the fuel.....but what would explain the sparking from the coil pack when the #4 wire is removed from its respective spark plug? Should i replace the coil with a known good one, then see if the problem exists?

I tried replacing it with a coil i knew worked but i didnt remove the coil itself from the mani and the new coil i just layed on the shock tower, maybe there is a grounding issue? I believe the problem is 2 part. The coil is shot, but so is the wiring for cyl4s fuel. Im going to try and straighten this mess up so i can begin searching for the mysterious cause of that knock (mechanical). Thanks, Mike

 

[Phaze2ECU]

Almost forgot to mention this, but gary (mitsu graveyard) said there was gas in my oil, meaning that most likely cyl 4 (since this seems to be revolving around it) it mostly likely puddling fuel. Could the coil pack sparking cause the injector to ground out or open constantly thus have to much fuel and not fire? Such freaking confusion, im thinking, change the coil pack, and trace cyl 4s injector wiring back very far and rewire a whole new clip and see if it still has a problem.

 

[dannytuned]

my friend had a kind of similar problem, and he actually started 2 of his dsms on fire this way. turned out his plug wires were not pushed onto the coil far enough, and the spark escaped and burned everything around the coil including the injector harness. they actually started the car on fire by causing a fuel leak by the #1 injector somewhere. he had just put plug wires on it to try and fix a hesitation problem. so, i would start by pulling all the plugs out, plugging them all in, ground them all, and crank it over ckeck what kind of spark each one gets. that would eliminate the coil from the list of suspects. then check fuel pressure. just a suggestion.

 

[Phaze2ECU]

I have an older eletric tool of some sort that connects to the battery and one clamp like thing for the plug wires. What should i be reading on each one? This would eliminate spark as the issue if they were all alright correct? Im thinking the sparking from the coil burned injector wiring hence the shock from injector clip #4.

 

[dannytuned]

not exactly understansing this tool you found???

 

[Phaze2ECU]

well id call it a volt meter but its got alligator clips instead of pointed tips like a normal voltmeter. Its like a sunpro all purpose automotive eletrical thing, has readings in rpms, volts, ohms, and settings for high/low voltage. I know that the coil or something near it has to be Fed because of that sparking, but with gas in the oil and the shock from injector clips im figuring the coil pack took something else with it when it went, some im trying to narrow this down.

 

[dannytuned]

thats for testing batteries and alternators. that inductive pickup clamp goes on the battery cable for a load test. do the test like i said with all the plugs out but still plugged in and grounded well.

 

[crankbender]

Pull your #4 plug and start the car witht he plug just sitting somewhere. do you get spark?

Did you pull the plug yet???

It could just be a bad plug or wire.

 

[Phaze2ECU]

I have pulled the wire off plug 4 while the car is running. It clicks (gets spark) but when i fully pull it away from the plug the motor runs the same as normal. but when i do that with any other cyl its noticbley running different. im thinking its only running on 3 cyl. Hopefully this weekend i can figure it out.

 

[crankbender]

pull the plug.....

 

[Phaze2ECU]

all plugs have white tips (lean ~> detonation as seen on datalogger from high knock sum and pulled timing) and the plug looks like its getting chewed on, its got like marks all over, i even stuck a magnet down the plug hoel to see if there was like a chunk of metal, obviosuly there wasnt.

 

[crankbender]

Ok so please outline the situation again.

What started this whole thing? were you working on anything?

Have you timed the car with a timing light?

 

[Phaze2ECU]

Update: New coil pack in (plugs mitsu graveyard for awesome service/parts/prices) and now it seems that only when i hit boost the problem occurs, and not as badly as before. When i pull the wire from cyl 4s plug now the engine noticibly changes its tone. I believe the remaining problem is a consequence of the seemingly fouled plugs. New ngk bpr6es's coming this weekend when i work on her again. On the bottom side of my intake manifolf there are i think 3-4 nipples, the ones cloest to the head are open, what should, if anything go here?

As for the prob now being boost dependent, i am still hitting 13 psi, but when i rev in idle which used to cause the problem nothing bad happens, only when i drive and hit positive pressure. Any thoughts? Hopefully this gets ironed out and i can start worrying about the mechincal issues and then worry about the 12s/13s (wishful thinking) anyway, thanks for any new thoughts, Mike