Phantom knock

[GORBS88]

Here we go again, Dont say search..i have searched for 2 weeks...i am ready to burn car..sick of this%$#%#.....i cant seem to get rid of it....i know its not real knock cause it comes and goes....rollin down highway and boom 43 counts then gone...then back...i tried new ks,new comp....took sensor from motor and grounded to firewall..all knock gone, that eliminated all wireing and computer..damn took it out and put washer behind, same thing, put teflon tape on threads same thing...put it in intake manny to see if less sensitive, same thing.....has anyone had any sucess latley that i dont know about...

Now why cant i just unhook it and tune it with wideband like all the other none factory turbo cars....you guys sayin your playin with fire to unhook it....well you guys are the ones that have never had phantom knock for 2 years....you dont know how frusterating it is....if i tune for 11.5-12 with wide band whats the trouble??...all these turbo hondas tune that way..the sti guys unhook there sensors cause valvetrain to noisy...no way low compression motor should blow up at 11.5-1....is there????? i have it unhooked now and works great....i mean if i am goin to blow it up from knock i would beable to hear it knock....knock is pretty loud....i am not a moron when it comes to cars.....i mean still runnin 14b with a supra side mount and a 190....shouldnt be any chance of knock...anyone think tuning without sensor with wideband like atleast half of other turbo cars is such a problem.?????????? thats all i need to know..i have givin up tryin to fix it....now time to get serious...thanx

 

[jetdriven]

I had the same problem and I used a J&S safeguard to eliminate it. see my previous posts.

 

[Joesmoke]

Always running a risk, but yeah, after a couple of years of PK, I added alky injection, and grounded mine. Ran for six months at 20+ pounds of boost + high timing no problem.

Made me love the car again!

Problem only came up when my injection failed! You know you have real knock when it goes PING PING PING! New injection system going in as we speak.

I also never heard anything at 43 counts of knock. It wasn't happening with low compression, good design engine, and good fuel. It was background noise.

For you guys that would love to step up and flame, those 3 loud pings did no damage. I just took my foot out of it. The 4g63 is a pretty tough little engine.

As always, YMMV and I don't recommend unplugging your KS unless you take responsibility for the possible damage.

J&S safeguard appears to be an excellent alternative to stock if funds allow.

 

[marcmsj]

unhooking ks = big BOOM!!!

if you like playing russian roulette, then go for it.

 

[GORBS88]

unhooking ks = big BOOM!!!

if you like playing russian roulette, then go for it.

And what do you know???? dotn reply if thats all you gonna say

 

[Joesmoke]

Yep, six months and I rebuilt my engine every day

Dont do it if you dont know what you're doing. Otherwise.....

 

[GORBS88]

Yep, six months and I rebuilt my engine every day

Dont do it if you dont know what you're doing. Otherwise.....

You rebuilt it every day?? huh?? yah well 20psi is pretty high......did you tune it with wide band??? what a/f ratio?? i am only runnin 14b at 17psi....not to worried....i hope..

 

[marcmsj]

And what do you know???? dotn reply if thats all you gonna say

yeah, i don't know anything, and neither do all the car manufacturer's that put those good for nothing knock sensors in cars... you really don't need it.

 

[GORBS88]

I Didnt say its not needed....if you know how to tune then it isnt as important....your sayin that you need egr,carbon canister,fuel control solenoid and all that stuff....well they put it on factory it must be needed.... I am not sayin i dont need knock sensor just that you can tune around it....it is there to save you....just like the factory tunes the car at 10.5 a/f ratio....why do that???? huh??? if 11-1 is safe....because they want to build a reliable car!!!!!! ever think of that??? by you sayin as soon as i unhook it my motor will blow that means i must be gettin tones of knock...well i can tune so i am not gettin knock....if it aint knockin it wont blow....if i unhook it its not gonna make it start to knock all of a sudden........tune it...how do these turbo honda guys run with out it???huh?? they must blow up everyday right???? they dont have KS....they tune with wide band....done..ever think that??? wow pretty hard...

 

[Joesmoke]

Knock sensors are good. OEMS have them their for a reason.

As for me, I just like to tinker. Also, alky injection is what allowed me to do it. As soon as the system let go, I had to back everything way down again.

I can see now from experience what would happen with no KS and trying to jack around with timing, fuel and boost!

 

[ADrewzki]

This might be a strange thing to add but my phantom knock went away when I replaced my coil pack. The coil pack I replaced worked fine and tested fine. I was hunting down a spark problem when I replaced it and it fixed the phantom knock. It's weird, I know but it might be worth trying. Especially if it's plagued you for 2 years now.

 

[1qwikspyder]

Yeah i had phantom knock for a while and it turned out to be my drivers side motor mount. I replaced my old crumbling stock mount for a prothane insert and it fixed the problem just like that. Funny thing is, is that i wasn't even doing it to try and fix the pk. I just decided to do motor mounts and only had time to do that one and when i was out driving it and logging w/ dsmlink i had no more pk.

 

[Joesmoke]

There have always been people that have fixed something mechanical and discovered that was what the problems were. Some say they have replaced "everything" and it doesnt go away. Problem is, the internet is a barrier for seeing if they did, and what sort of work they did.

Even when people have been told to check something to make sure its not a real problem, I often wonder how many actually do, before writing back that wasnt the problem.

The term phantom knock can now unfortunately be used by any newbie as soon as their car goes slow, and they don't want to or can't do any mechanical work to see if the knock is truly "phantom" (referencing nobody in particular)

I also find it interesting that these posts pop up in the summertime, when our ic's get heatsoaked faster. Good chance its not phantom now, but real.

 

[flinguist]

I used MCCC to get rid of my lifter tick, along with a XADO treatment, and my phantom knock pretty much disappeared. If your pk is from lifter tick, as mine was, use the MCCC method to get rid of it, or go for 3G lifters, which don't tick.

 

[ACKERSON]

A friend of mine replaced his ball joints and his PK went away. You could also get a chip if you have an eprom ecu and it can help with PK, DSMLINK also has a PK feature.

 

[AL92]

I had bad case of it on my 92 talon. I tried new knock sensor,mmcc ,changed out coil pack ,wires plug. Fuel system was all changed from stock.etc. I finally got rid of mine by selling the 92.. well I did sell my 92 but got rid of it by buying eprom ecu with pk elimination code.

 

[Steve93Talon]

Tort's car has had phantom knock for years, and we've pretty much accepted it and learned to drive around it. If you're just cruising along, it'll shoot up to 43 counts, then drop back to zero. If you go to roll on the gas, it somtimes spikes up, but if you get off the gas and right back on it goes away. We've tried motor mounts, lifters, and many of the other "fixes". Nothing worked. Now there's a Keydiver chip with the PK elim. code and it still does it.

I had one thought, pick up a cheap boost switch (Coolingmist sells them). Wire up the knock sensor to it so that under 5psi, it grounds the wire and above 5psi it lets the ECU see the knock sensor. This should eliminate anything that's truly "phantom" and keep the engine safe at WOT/full boost. Just be advised that if your knock is real, and it's coming on at the onset of boost, you still run the risk of damaging your engine! We'll be giving this a try soon and I'll be sure to post results.