2G Opinions needed! Mildly built 6 bolt short block or stock rebuilt 6 bolt long block??

[96gstdsm]

I am going to be doing a 6 bolt swap. My question is for the same amount of money as a stock rebuilt 6 bolt long block from overbore, I called and they said I could get a medium built short block. It would not be forged internals, but better than stock pistons and rods and I could use my 2g head. Every thing in both rebuilds would cover everything. All new parts including, timing belt and accessories, oil pump, water pump etc. For a 300whp goal, which option for the money to you think would be best. Or also maybe a stock rebuilt short block and then use my 2g head? Would be only 1100 total for a stock rebuilt short block, long block is like 1800, built short block would be 1600 total. I plan to run around 20 psi with an evo3 16g turbo.
I have read that the stock 6 bolt is good for a lot of power. Is that really trustworthy? Don't want to invest a lot of money and have it rap out on me! This is a DAILY DRIVER only! So no track time here. So 1/4 mile is not my main goal.
Any input on which setup should meet my needs the best and for the money as well.

 

[luvmygst]

The factory pistons are forged pistons. If you are going for something simple with little down time. I would stay with the 7 bolt. Less hassle than a 6 bolt swap and will hold 300hp easy. Just my .02
I dont see how they can tell you the pistons and rods will be better but not forged? WTF Are you getting the price for a turbo longblock or for a N/A longblock?

 

[96gstdsm]

It is a 6 bolt turbo. I want to get away from the 7 bolt. I am rebuilding the whole car pretty much. New tranny, fuel system suspension, exhaust, engine, turbo etc. I am trying to get it really reliable and have nice power. So I don't want to rebuild a 7 bolt, and have it walk on me in a month. Better safe than sorry I think. You can't get upgraded pistons that are not forged? Should a stock rebuilt 6 bolt block be plenty good for my goal, without worry of bending rods or anything? Less of course build error or install error? I would most likely build up my head a little bit later down the road. Just really can't decide if I need upgraded internals, or if a stock rebuilt short block or long block would do me just fine.

 

[96gstdsm]

O k I think I'm just going to go with the 1g rods and 2g pistons combo. That should be plenty good for a 300hp goal correct? Is there anything particular I should do to my 2g head when installing that? What should I check for to make sure it is in good enough condition? I know I need to drill out the holes to bolt it up to the 6 bolt block, anything else? I would probably get like valve springs and retainers put in then. Cam's would come maybe then or a little later down the road. Anything else important to do when I put the head on? Can I use any head gasket since it is a 6 bolt block and a 7 bolt head? Or do I need a custom one to go with that?

 

[luvmygst]

It is a 6 bolt turbo. I want to get away from the 7 bolt. I am rebuilding the whole car pretty much. New tranny, fuel system suspension, exhaust, engine, turbo etc. I am trying to get it really reliable and have nice power. So I don't want to rebuild a 7 bolt, and have it walk on me in a month. Better safe than sorry I think. You can't get upgraded pistons that are not forged? Should a stock rebuilt 6 bolt block be plenty good for my goal, without worry of bending rods or anything? Less of course build error or install error? I would most likely build up my head a little bit later down the road. Just really can't decide if I need upgraded internals, or if a stock rebuilt short block or long block would do me just fine.

I dont see a cast piston as an upgrade to the factory forged piston, they are a weaker component. At 20psi you want forged pistons (factory or otherwise) C/W is way overrated, how many miles are on your motor now? Has it walked? IF you buy a motor with a warranty I would still say 7 bolt. With the 6 bolt you are going to have the head bolt holes enlarged to fit the bigger 6 bolt studs(I assume you are using ARP studs on the head) Then you are going to have to worry about the random misfire code, unless you are going to buy DSM LINK. Is still say if you want a reliable 300- hp car stick w/ the 7 bolt. What are you going to use to tune with? Good luck.

 

[96gstdsm]

I am definitely going 6 bolt! It's not much more at all. My engine now has over 150k on it. If my car does get the random misfire code then yes I will just go with dsmlink. Great item to have to tune anyways. If not I am going to tune with an afc. Not the best option but more affordable and will work. The 6 bolt engine I am getting comes with a 3 year warranty also, so that is very nice! I know cw is overrated but I would hate to be one of the people that right after a rebuild it happens to! From what I have read the 2g pistons and the 1g rods, is a very good affordable combo. Is this not correct? That set up should be fine to run 20 psi I would think.
I am going to have this installed at a shop I believe as this is my daily driver and I don't have time to mess around with the install. They will drill out the holes for no extra. One price covers all needed extra parts as well as all labor! 1 grand seems pretty good to me. They will also install valve springs an retainers and cam's for nothing extra at the same time. As well as install my new turbo setup and fuel setup for only like 100 bucks more. Figured for that price a 6 bolt swap is a great option.

 

[TSG59_Steve]

I am definitely going 6 bolt! It's not much more at all. My engine now has over 150k on it. If my car does get the random misfire code then yes I will just go with dsmlink. Great item to have to tune anyways. If not I am going to tune with an afc. Not the best option but more affordable and will work. The 6 bolt engine I am getting comes with a 3 year warranty also, so that is very nice! I know cw is overrated but I would hate to be one of the people that right after a rebuild it happens to! From what I have read the 2g pistons and the 1g rods, is a very good affordable combo. Is this not correct? That set up should be fine to run 20 psi I would think.
I am going to have this installed at a shop I believe as this is my daily driver and I don't have time to mess around with the install. They will drill out the holes for no extra. One price covers all needed extra parts as well as all labor! 1 grand seems pretty good to me. They will also install valve springs an retainers and cam's for nothing extra at the same time. As well as install my new turbo setup and fuel setup for only like 100 bucks more. Figured for that price a 6 bolt swap is a great option.

Actually the cost of machining the 2g pistons to the 1g rods cost about the same as a better setup like wiseco and eagle, so do that. If I were you I'd shop around a little more, check out Kar King or my favorite, Maperformance (maperformance.com). I didn't see anything about getting the balance shafts removed either, so you might want to do that.

Oh and I'm with you with the no 7bolt thing. I don't care what other people think or say, and I agree cw is overrated, but nonetheless I've had two 7bolts spin bearings on me so I think they are junk.

 

[luvmygst]

Actually the cost of machining the 2g pistons to the 1g rods cost about the same as a better setup like wiseco and eagle, so do that. If I were you I'd shop around a little more, check out Kar King or my favorite, Maperformance (maperformance.com). I didn't see anything about getting the balance shafts removed either, so you might want to do that.

Oh and I'm with you with the no 7bolt thing. I don't care what other people think or say, and I agree cw is overrated, but nonetheless I've had two 7bolts spin bearings on me so I think they are junk.

You actually machine the rods to fit the pistons, you dont touch the pistons. I had mine done for $70 Thats alot cheaper than a set of rods.

 

[TSG59_Steve]

You actually machine the rods to fit the pistons, you dont touch the pistons. I had mine done for $70 Thats alot cheaper than a set of rods.

I didn't say machine the pistons, I said machining the pistons to the rods. Even if that does sound like I meant machine the pistons to fit, I know that you need to machine the wrist pin bore to 22mm and narrow the pin end of the rod. I considered doing it for my 6 bolt swap. Also, prices vary from shop to shop, and that doesn't include the cost of the 1g rods. I don't consider even $150 to be that much to go from 1g rods to Eagle rods.

 

[luvmygst]

IF I could have found Eagle rods for $75 I would have bought them but like most dsm'rs im cheap, and broke

 

[TSG59_Steve]

IF I could have found Eagle rods for $75 I would have bought them but like most dsm'rs im cheap, and broke

Gotta love it though right

 

[96gstdsm]

The engine i am getting does have the balance shaft's eliminated already. I had looked into karking already. Seemed not bad, but overbore.com definitely seemed like they did more work in the rebuild! Also they said they give a 3 year warranty compared to 6 month from karking. It is a great price there, but i have read some reviews and they seem to have oil leaks frequently. That is from posts from like 2 years ago so don't know for sure there current status with that.
Using 1g rods and 2g pistons would really cost a lot? Trying to keep it as cheap as possible while still staying with good quality an reliable to handle what I want to throw at it.
Maperformance seems real good, just a bit expensive for me right now. Overbore.com where i am hoping to get it from offered me 1100 for the rebuilt short block including the core charge and everything. I will then sell my block and hopefully get a couple hundred for it.

 

[95AWD6Bolt]

Hey man, if its going to be your daily driver then I wouldnt suggest a 6 bolt. I just went through a 6 bolt in a 2g and it was just problem after problem and it never ever ran right. Just stay with the 7 bolt. I had a reputable shop rebuilt my engine and do the install and paid top dollar but in the end it was not worth it. This is just my opinion but i am trying to help you out. You could have different results.

 

[96gstdsm]

Hey tsg59 steve. How has your 6 bolt swap held up for you? I really want it to be reliable and last me quite a long time. Not looking to spend like 4 grand total on the engine and tranny and turbo, and have it be continuous problems. Would be hell. The random misfire code, that can be 100% fixed with dsmlink if nothing else works correct?

 

[96gstdsm]

Ok i just got off the phone with the guy who is going to rebuild an engine for me. I was asking about doing the 1g rods and 2g pistons and all stock rebuild with balance shafts removed etc. He was telling me that those stock internals would be good for around 250-300 hp. Is that all they are really good for keeping reliability in mind? I was hoping to make somewhere around 300whp with the setup I am looking at. I would really hate to go through all the money and work and have the internals fall short. I had read on this forum that the internals are good for like over 400hp or something. Which person is correct regarding this? Can i get 300whp with them and still be reliable and last me a long time assuming nothing else unforseen happens?

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

Stock 2g pistons and rods are good till 400whp, dont know where your getting all the bullshit from that guy from, 250-300whp building a motor? Why??? Just throw in another cheap 7-bolt if your just looking for 350whp. If your looking for more, just do a 6-bolt and throw in some eagle rods.

 

[96gstdsm]

Stock 2g pistons and rods are good till 400whp, dont know where your getting all the bullshit from that guy from, 250-300whp building a motor? Why??? Just throw in another cheap 7-bolt if your just looking for 350whp. If your looking for more, just do a 6-bolt and throw in some eagle rods.

I'm looking for reliability also. I do not want to rebuild my 7 bolt and have it walk out the door on me! Figured I might as well go 6 bolt in case I decide to throw more power at it down the road. I was hoping to get a nice reliable 300whp max from a 6 bolt block, 2g head, evo316g turbo and fuel support and exhaust of course and tuning. Is the only thing better about the 2g pistons the higher compression ratio? and the 1g rods are definitely better than the 2g ones correct? I'm buying the rebuilt shortblock with 1g rods and 2g pistons including shipping and all from overbore.com for like 1200 total including a core charge which I'm not going to send back, so if I do it would be another $200 back, so $1000. Everything is replaced or rebuilt, also comes with a warranty.

Everyone seems to try to convince me to not get a 6 bolt swap! That is not the question here. I have decided no matter what, I am going with a 6 bolt block, if not a 6 bolt long block.

 

[CrisZ03]

In case you are still in the market for one, we have the 6-bolt longblock here for 1300. That is a complete rebuild with 6 month warranty as you already know. We offer extended warranty as well if you want it.
As far as oil leaks, I haven't had one customer come to me with a problem about oil leaks, and I have been here almost 2 years.

If the post you are talking about is from "Talesin" that guy never bought anything from us.

Thanks, Cris - Kar King Auto
1-800-843-8349

 

[96gstdsm]

In case you are still in the market for one, we have the 6-bolt longblock here for 1300. That is a complete rebuild with 6 month warranty as you already know. We offer extended warranty as well if you want it.
As far as oil leaks, I haven't had one customer come to me with a problem about oil leaks, and I have been here almost 2 years.

If the post you are talking about is from "Talesin" that guy never bought anything from us.

Thanks, Cris - Kar King Auto
1-800-843-8349

Hi yes I have spoken to you about the rebuild. I really wanted to get 1g rods with the 2g pistons, which you said you were unable to do. Is that correct still? Could i also get a complete list of what is replaced with new parts, what is machined, balance shafts removed? Whats done to the head? Crank? Thanks, this way I can have something in front of me what is done in full to this rebuild. It is a 6 bolt turbo block, not NA? I read that somewhere that those were the ones you used.
Thanks--- Ryan.

 

[OwninFools]

cw is completely over talked about, it does happen, but there's plenty of cars that people drive that have a common problem but drive them for years. New GM 4L60E tranny is terrible and always breaks down, BUT, there's some that have had their 4l60 for 3 - 4 years, not a single problem.

It's just, uh, un-luck of the draw?

 

[TSG59_Steve]

Hey tsg59 steve. How has your 6 bolt swap held up for you? I really want it to be reliable and last me quite a long time. Not looking to spend like 4 grand total on the engine and tranny and turbo, and have it be continuous problems. Would be hell. The random misfire code, that can be 100% fixed with dsmlink if nothing else works correct?

It's in progress actually Sorry I didn't get back to you til' now, didn't see your post.

The RM code would be 100% fixed by DSMlink, the only times I've heard people say it didn't was when something else was wrong (meaning DSMlink did actually work).

 

[CrisZ03]

Hi yes I have spoken to you about the rebuild. I really wanted to get 1g rods with the 2g pistons, which you said you were unable to do. Is that correct still? Could i also get a complete list of what is replaced with new parts, what is machined, balance shafts removed? Whats done to the head? Crank? Thanks, this way I can have something in front of me what is done in full to this rebuild. It is a 6 bolt turbo block, not NA? I read that somewhere that those were the ones you used.
Thanks--- Ryan.

What we do is a stock 6 Bolt Rebuild. We do eliminate the balance shafts. The block and crank are in excellent condition. The block is machined and bored. The Head is completely rebuilt at our machine shop, valve job and resurfaced.
The block we use both turbo and non turbo, we eliminate the squirters. The blocks are the same. The internals are all turbo with correct compression ratio 7.5:1 Any other questions, feel free to call. Thanks

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Cris - Kar King Auto
2151 E Philadelphia
Ontario, CA 91761

1-800-843-8349