New Clutch, is what I am experiencing chatter?

[Joshky9]

Hello all please help if you can. I have been trying to get this talon back together(1990 Eagle Talon TSI AWD), new engine, with same transmission that was in before. Anyways, I have installed now an ACT 2100 with street disk and Mitsubishi OEM Throw out bearing. I greased the TOB before putting it on and put a new TOB clip on it from Mitsubishi as well as a new clutch fork and pivot ball, flywheel was resurfaced by someone recommended by Shep. When I try to let out on the clutch in First gear it starts to chatter or make a vibration noise from the front passenger side. If I give it a little more gas and slip the gas the sound disappears. When going in reverse the sound is barely audible or almost non existent. In all other gears the sound is really not audible and I do not notice any clutch slippage, also when I push the clutch in or out in neutral no noise is made only when letting out mainly in first gear. Could bad Clutch Master or Slave cylinder be the issue or is it just some clutch problem with ACT needing to be broken in or worse? I really don't want pull the tranny off again but have looked in through the clutch fork boot and don't see anything banging around in there. Any help would be greatly appreciated I have really put a lot of time and money into this car and would really like it to be drivable. Thanks for reading and hope it wasn't all to long.

 

[steebm]

well based on ### u said no i dont think its in the slave cylender or master cylender.i had one do simmular and it was the cluch but it could also be something in the tranny but for u ihope not

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Saying it is good to go or not is very hard to do over the internet. If you have replaced all of the mechanical things in the system, try rebleeding it once again (and again) and adjusting your master rod to see any improvement. How audible is this sound?

What step was the flywheel machined to? Spec is .608"-.613". If installed with a new clutch kit and torqueing everything correctly and evenly, I would suspect it something minor, especially since you used all new parts (hope you didn't shim the fulcrum ball nor use an extended slave rod!).

 

[Notstock]

I experience this too but I have a 6 puck ceramic disk and from what I hear, that is normal for a puck style disk. Not sure if that's normal with a street disk though. It worried me at first but I guess I'm used to it now and it doesn't bother me. My car seems to act normal besides the chatter/noise on decel.

 

[Joshky9]

Hello all thanks for the help I have a couple updates as well as a couple replies to statements made. Well first the updates, now unfortunately I am noticing this rattling chatter/marble banging around sound(on passenger side right in tranny area) in neutral, very minor and quiet and when I do press the clutch in it disappears. Sometimes in neutral it goes away but most of the time I can hear slight noise if I'm right in that wheel well area. So could it be my Throw out bearing because of the noise now in neutral and when I press in the clutch it disappears? Or could it just be the clutch chatter break in noise? I talked to John Shepherd today on the phone and he lives pretty much 10 minutes away from my house. Anyways, he said it could be just the flywheel and clutch disk getting acquainted and try and drive it to see if it lessens. He said sometimes the ACT 2100 street disks do chatter a bit and to check and make sure my dowel pins are in and tranny is mounted flush which it is( also said something about my motor mounts which I did the insert trick on VFAQ). He recommended me the machine shop who redid my flywheel which they did machine the step to spec or at least they told me that. Everything was torqued down in sequence and to torque specs as in the factory manual. It is possible I got a bad Mitsu TOB? There is NO shim on the pivot ball and NO extended clutch slave cylinder rod. I have read all about that covering up problems, however my master adjustment is all the way adjusted(meaning clutch should engage higher from the floor). Also now i can drive it and work the clutch just so that I myself do not hear the chatter while im driving(rev at like 1500-2000 and ease into it-goes pretty smooth a little grabby). Keep in mind that I built a 3" turbo back and cant hear all that much fine detail. Would a video help? Thanks guys im really trying and have tried to do this project as correctly as I could.

Do you think its okay to keep driving?
I may try to limp her over to Shep on Friday and see what he thinks, he is really a great guy to the whole DSM community!

 

[brandt]

i have the same issue. i put a new motor in had the trans rebuilt and new pretty much everything. does it sound like your car is gonna fall apart? if so then this is clutch chatter. i just ignore it and it seems to be fine. but im running a 6puck unsprung fidenza 5.4. my friend with his evo is runnning the same clutch as u and he has it too. he has put over 12k miles on it without a problem.

 

[Joshky9]

It sounds like a crackling chattering sound if I don't find the "sweet spot" when I let out on the clutch. Its not terribly loud but it sounds nasty i cant hear it at idle in neutral unless i'm out of the car right next to the wheel well. Also looking on some posts, could it be my input shaft nut backing off. When I put my hand on the trans case I do feel a rattle on that end cover. This thing has only been on the road like 15 miles at most how could the nut back off that quick?

 

[brandt]

im almost positive you are having clutch chatter. im having all the same symptoms. so most likely it is clutch chatter.

 

[wimploki]

I had the exact same issue in the past. Brand new 2100, fidanza flywheel, street disc, oem throwout bearing, fork and ball. Give it a few more miles and see if it goes away. Just take it easy on the clutch.

If it doesn't go away, try adjusting your master.

 

[Joshky9]

If it doesn't go away, try adjusting your master.

The clutch master cylinder is adjusted all the way out-clutch engages the highest the master will adjust off of the floor. It feels like it engages well, about halfway up. Should i try and adjust it still if it dosnt go away?

 

[Joshky9]

Okay Hopefully I can Get some more input with this video and picture I have. The tranny noise is coming right from the circled in green area on the tranny. Whatever is making the noise it is coming from right under their. If I put my hand over the area the sound disappears(almost it is barely audible) most likely due to muffling of the sound. Could this be the input shaft nut? or whatever nut people say comes loose under the end cover on the transmission. The sound is right there and am beginning to think its not clutch chatter. If i push the slave cylinder rod back in the sound still does not stop which I have read means it is probably not the TOB. Take a look and listen to the video and see what you guys think. Thanks
<embed id="VideoPlayback" src="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-7613229089403109117&hl=en&fs=true" style="width:400px;height:326px" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"> </embed>
Josh

 

[wimploki]

Before you start playing w/ the master adjustment rod, please make sure to read up on rre clutch adjustment info. Sometimes the upper clutch adjuster needs adjusting as well. Make sure that there is a little free play off the floor before the clutch begins to grab. Small amount of free play at the top is required as well.

RRE's Clutch And Flywheel Tech Info

Scroll down the page for the clutch adjustment section.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Joshky9]

So the master cylinder adjustment could really stop the sound? I will mess with it tonight but like I said before I pushed the slave cylinder rod back into itself with the car running and still the sound is there. Wouldn't that take the hydrolyics out of the mix. Im just asking questions here I really dont know. Lastly I dont see what your talking about for the upper clutch adjustment for a 1g besides adjusting it at the master. Thanks everyone Ill mess with it more tonight and tomorrow ill try and get her over to shep if it dosnt get better.

 

[wimploki]

Since your only about 10 minute from Sheps shop, i recon that you pay him a visit. This might be your best solution.

 

[slipstream808]

Um hey, I'd say just take off the cover and take a look. It's really no big deal to take off there cover, RTV it and slap it back on. Take a look at those nuts and see if they are loose. It's an easy fix and will solve a lot of your problems now/in the future IF that is the issue.

 

[Joshky9]

Will Those nuts literally be hand loose or will I have to see if the nut has moved from where it was staked before. Is the torque spec in the factory manual? Even if so does anyone know the torque spec? Ill look more into this when I get home where i have my factory manual. Thanks everyone i hope to get his solved soon e-mailed shep to see if its cool if i come by tomorrow. Hopefully we can get this ironed out I hear he knows a lot about these transmissions

 

[2FoX2]

I had this same problem with my setup. I had a ACT 2100 Street Disc, XACT flywheel, OEM fork, throwout, and fulcrum, and it chattered like mad. I took the clutch and flywheel out to find that the flywheel appears to have some "high spots" that were causing the chatter. In the end I sent it all back to ACT for an RMA.

 

[Joshky9]

Okay went to Shep's they thought it was one of those nuts off the end cover on the tranny since it was coming right from there. They didnt seem to think it was clutch chatter or a bad TOB. Well come home take off the end cover. Nut is on there and stakes are still aligned correctly. Only thing i noticed was some sort of shim for the reverse syncro was rather worn ill post some pics tomorrow. Any other ideas people. This is frustrating.

 

[Joshky9]

Well here is the update. Tired of playing the guessing game so the tranny is coming off. The general consensus that im getting is that an ACT 2100 with street disk shouldn't really chatter and ive also heard that traditional "clutch chatter" is more a feeling then a noise even though noises can be associated with the vibration. This sound im getting feels like marbles rattling or something. last thing I want to have happen is for me or my bro to get injured or for more things to get damaged because i was too lazy to pull the tranny off to find something was really wrong with clutch/transmission setup. Give me some things I should check for, right now ill be checking the clutch and flywheel surfaces as well as the disk springs, the TOB & tob clip. Also checking all the torques on all the fasteners to make sure everything was tight. If all this is checking out okay does this problem im having = internal transmission problem? Can i check the flywheel step spec at my house? Any help would again be greatly appreciated.

P.S. If it is an internal tranny problem this one i know is getting a Shep rebuild and hopefully my other 1g talon will as well, maybe he will give me a deal on two rebuilds.

 

[No_Skillz]

Before you pull the trans, have you considered the CV joint? Pull the axles out (a bit of fluid should pour out so be prepared to catch it and fill again after axle install) and try to reproduce the issue while on jackstands. Sometimes if the CV is bad, the vibration/noise can seem to come from that case cover. If there is no noise with axles out, it would point to an issue somewhere else along your driveline.