New cams are not pulling like they should HELP!!

[Corman12345]

I recently put a set of FP2 cams in my tsi and are not really impressed with the performance. I had a set of 1G MT cams before and they seemed to pull harder overall. With the FP2s, the idle is fine with a slight loss in the low end which was expected. but the mid (3200 - 5500) seems to be a lot weaker and the top end seems to be the same if not slightly better up to about 7k. I expected a lot more than this especailly the top end. I just double checked the cam timing and ign timing and everything is fine there. Anybody have any ideas as on why these aren't pulling like they should. I have put a few other sets of cams in some of my friends dsms and they made a big difference. I am going to buy some cam gears and see if i can degree they properly, mabey that is the problem.

BTW: would anyone have any good links or tips on degreeing cams for dsms

 

[TurboDSM90]

I am in the same boat as you...for some reason the cams dont feel right. I had to retard the timing on my emanage up to 13 degrees in some areas of the pump gas map I use. I am kinda dissapointed as well. I emailed bob after I installed them and gave him the part numbers off teh cam to make sure he sent me the right ones...no response...




Im thinking about throwing the stock cams back in..

 

[Corman12345]

Did you degree them? i hope that is my problem. I have seen the big power gains from cams in other cars but mine seems to loose power. I am with you, probably going to put the stock cams back in and sell these if they don't get any better.

 

[TurboDSM90]

Did you degree them? i hope that is my problem. I have seen the big power gains from cams in other cars but mine seems to loose power. I am with you, probably going to put the stock cams back in and sell these if they don't get any better.

Nope, I did not degree the cams in. I will be buying some adjustable cam gears after I get a new clutch in as it seems mine is on its way out.


On a side note, was you block or head ever resurfaced?

 

[DsMWookie]

If your only revving to 7k sounds like you should've gotten the FP1's or maybe rev your car higher then that.

Basically those larger cams will more power but for a narrower RPM range and higher up in the power band.

I put some HKS 264's in my car and I lovem I wouldnt care for the 272's I love my lowend and it pulls all the way to redline.

 

[Corman12345]

On a side note, was you block or head ever resurfaced?

It was resurfaced when i did the 1g head swap. I am not sure how much they took off either. I have thought about that too but it has to be such a small amount of material that was removed that it shouldn't make that big of a difference.

And i am sure they are the fp2s because the i double checked the specs with fp and they match the fp2.

 

[2bar]

Did you install new springs with the new cams? Your valve springs might be weak and not keeping up with the larger cam angle.

 

[TurboDSM90]

Did you install new springs with the new cams? Your valve springs might be weak and not keeping up with the larger cam angle.

I dont know about Corman, but I have crower springs and retainers.

And about the revving to 7K thing, the car feels flat all the way from when boost builds(5k-24psi) to redline 7k ish. If there was a whole lot more to be unleashed it would pull harder around 6K which its not. So you're saying rev it up to 9k?

FP's dyno is interesting...

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[olmytsi]

So whats the deal with these cams? I am thinking about ordering them but after reading this i am a little iffy. Anyone care to advice me. Should i jus look for hks and a call it a day?

 

[TurboDSM90]

So whats the deal with these cams? I am thinking about ordering them but after reading this i am a little iffy. Anyone care to advice me. Should i jus look for hks and a call it a day?

I need to go back to te dyno and find out for myself.....I dont think I am going to be pleased.

 

[1fast97gsx]

I think you bought cams that are too aggresive for your setup. A 16g'd car should never run such a cam unless you plan to run insane boost numbers and rev to 9k or so. I'm sure once you have the cams dialed in and the car retuned you will notice some gains, but a 16g'd car should stick with a smaller cam such as the hks 264s or the 264 / 272 combo. I think your major problem is tuning and you aren't flowing enough air to take advantage of the cams.

 

[1fast97gsx]

I dont know about Corman, but I have crower springs and retainers.

And about the revving to 7K thing, the car feels flat all the way from when boost builds(5k-24psi) to redline 7k ish. If there was a whole lot more to be unleashed it would pull harder around 6K which its not. So you're saying rev it up to 9k?

FP's dyno is interesting...

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I think something as simple as a boost leak or improper tuning would solve your problem since you are running a fairly decent sized turbo. I think you made the right cam choice, you just need some tuning and possibly degree the cams. Why are you not hitting 24 psi until 5k on a 20g? My scm61 hits 24 psi by 4500. I think you have a boost leak or major tuning issues.

 

[TurboDSM90]

I think something as simple as a boost leak or improper tuning would solve your problem since you are running a fairly decent sized turbo. I think you made the right cam choice, you just need some tuning and possibly degree the cams. Why are you not hitting 24 psi until 5k on a 20g? My scm61 hits 24 psi by 4500. I think you have a boost leak or major tuning issues.

I have been trying to find another turbo, but I think I might have been hussled for some cash. I have a Hahn 20G-H the laggier one of the bunch. I loved it when I had it on my fwd car, but now its a burden, I HAVE to launch at 5K to get a decent launch other wise the car bogs....I dunno...beed too frusterated with the car lately

I havent touched it in a month

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

I've never heard of anyone being dissapointed with these cams. I have them, but no numbers. My friend IcedEarth15 has them on his 14b-powered 1G and wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[1fast97gsx]

Well if they show gains on a 14b but not a T28 then there is something definitly wrong. Another option is you mistimed it by a tooth. They may appear to be lined up properly, however a straight edge does wonders. I'd check the timing one last time and set your base ignition timing to 5 degrees again just to be safe. You should definitly feel SOMETHING.

 

[Corman12345]

I have checked ign timing and cam timing about a many times and everything looks good. I also spent hours tuning with no durasitc improvement. I am using the EVOIII 16g @ 22psi flowing 41.5 lb/min so i dont think that i am not flowing enough air to see a difference. I am going to try and degree them in the next couple of weeks after i get some gears to see if that helps. oh and another thing is after the cams were in the compression dropped about 35 lbs which leads me to believe that they are way retarded.

 

[olmytsi]

So bottom line, i should get them? I am running a 50 trim on a stock head. Will i really need to upgrade something else in the head to rev to say 8k to take full advantage of these? HKS cams are running about $600. I found a used set for 500 but if these fp2s are just as good id rather get them since they will be new and a little under 500. Anyone been to the dyno or the track with the fp2s? I just dont want to buy them and be disapointed. So anyone with some feedback, please post.

thanx

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

FP claims zero valve float with these up to (I believe) 8500. May have been 8000, I can't remember for sure.

I don't think your intake manifold will keep up, though.

Oh, and yea, there are dyno charts floating around this site, but I don't feel like searching

 

[psychlow]

FP claims zero valve float with these up to (I believe) 8500. May have been 8000, I can't remember for sure.

Is this on stock springs?

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

Yes.

 

[anconover]

older thread, but ill comment. overall, im not too happy with the fp2's. I like the powerband of the 272's much more. Im on a 50trim etc, and a jm fab intake manifold. last year on stock intake stock cams i went 12.3@112 on pump at 23psi, this year at 26psi on pump i couldnt do better than 12.7 @ 109 on pump. Car doesnt drop off at 6.5k like it use to, but it doesnt pull harder before hand thats for sure, just continues to pull past 6.5k is all ive been able to see. My 1/8th mi ets/mph's suck as well.

overall car feels kinda dead, compression is good, holds 20psi in an intake leak test, timing was 17-18* and a count of knock or 2 around 6k in 3rd.

 

[Nt-Eclipse-Dail]

I need to go back to te dyno and find out for myself.....I dont think I am going to be pleased.

I would be pleased as hell if my 90 model DSM could produce a timeslip like yours...

Nice job on your car, Guys like you inspire ALL of us to do better!

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

older thread, but ill comment. overall, im not too happy with the fp2's. I like the powerband of the 272's much more. Im on a 50trim etc, and a jm fab intake manifold. last year on stock intake stock cams i went 12.3@112 on pump at 23psi, this year at 26psi on pump i couldnt do better than 12.7 @ 109 on pump. Car doesnt drop off at 6.5k like it use to, but it doesnt pull harder before hand thats for sure, just continues to pull past 6.5k is all ive been able to see. My 1/8th mi ets/mph's suck as well.

overall car feels kinda dead, compression is good, holds 20psi in an intake leak test, timing was 17-18* and a count of knock or 2 around 6k in 3rd.

I really don't think the cams are to blame in your situation. You installed two big power adders and lost 3 MPH and almost half a second. It doesn't make any sense.

 

[olmytsi]

Your tune must be out of wack. Did u try running at lower boost first?

 

[1fast97gsx]

this year at 26psi on pump i couldnt do better than 12.7 @ 109 on pump.

How are you running 26 psi on pump and expecting your car to be faster knocking like crazy than at 23 psi with little knock??