Need some Knowledgeable people.

[sillylepricon37]

I don't know if you all have read my other threads but the problem is still not resolved.

I am pulling timing really bad and my manifold glows cherry red; So does the Turbine housing. The car feels like it has no power and my wastegate is opening too early making this hilacious noise.

I have replaced the following.
-Ecu
-Knock Sensor
-Hooked the wastegate up right but it still makes that noise.
-Intake sounds like a turkey (Probably Compression Surge)
-FPR was un hooked, plugged it in.
-Spark plug wire was off, put that back on.
-Checked the turbo, seems to be fine.
-I get 100 miles to a tank of gas.
-A cold start up, and it wont rev above 2k.
-I can go 1 block down the road and the manifold glows.
-White Exhaust smoke. when its cold out. A lot of It.
-No check engine light
-No Codes
-Disconnected the exhaust and still the same problem.
-Mechanical Timing is dead on.
-Spark Plugs are in the correct firing order
-Threw on some RC550cc injectors and still the same problem except the idle jumped to almost 3 and stayed there!?

Tell me what you think. Im a little confused and cant come up with anything else.

 

[DSM_PWR]

Seems like it could be alot of things..

If your manifold/turbo is glowing red, means that its getting too hot, which is caused by running lean...

Are you throwing any check engine lights?

Is there any smoke coming out the exhaust/engine bay?

Have you checked for exhaust leaks? Boost leaks? Compression test? Leakdown test?

 

[DIRQUIN]

I see all the things you have checked and replaced. Have you checked the cat yet. I had asked before but didnt get a response. Just do your self a favor and check it. At least then you know for sure. May need to get a logger to see some info to get to the root of the issue. Do you have anyone you can borrow a logger from?

 

[rEclipserGST]

Come on guys, no one said "check the timing" yet?

Base timing, check it. I bet MONEY it's off. As bad as your symptoms are, I'm guessing at least around 15 degrees or so.

Do it, and thank me later sir.

 

[Mindslayer]

I second your timing.

 

[92dsm1]

Also make SURE your firing order is correct, I seen plug wires put on wrong before and the truck did the same thing. But definately check timing and the cat. Let us know what fixes it when you do get it.

 

[Ceddy]

You most likely have a Knock or Phantom Knock issue.

Knock will cause your Timing to be Retarded, which will cause your Exhaust Gas Temp to skyrocket.

You need to log Knock, if you can't log Knock with your logger then log Timing Advance and see if it looks normal.

If you still have a 99 motor, you can't adjust Base Timing, only a 1G CAS will allow this.


Which year(or model#) ecu is your replacement?


Edit: Don't drive your car until you fix your EGT issue, you will burn up your Exhaust Valves.
A burnt up Exhaust Valve can also cause heat issues, because unburnt gases are exiting the motor early.

 

[sillylepricon37]

Seems like it could be alot of things..

If your manifold/turbo is glowing red, means that its getting too hot, which is caused by running lean...

Are you throwing any check engine lights?

Is there any smoke coming out the exhaust/engine bay?

Have you checked for exhaust leaks? Boost leaks? Compression test? Leakdown test?

No check Engine light, No Codes. no boost leak tiny exhaust leak but it doesnt matter because it did the same thing when it didnt have one.

I see all the things you have checked and replaced. Have you checked the cat yet. I had asked before but didnt get a response. Just do your self a favor and check it. At least then you know for sure. May need to get a logger to see some info to get to the root of the issue. Do you have anyone you can borrow a logger from?

Yeah my bad i forgot to tell you i checked it 2 weeks ago. Same thing, it wasnt clogged

Come on guys, no one said "check the timing" yet?

Base timing, check it. I bet MONEY it's off. As bad as your symptoms are, I'm guessing at least around 15 degrees or so.

Do it, and thank me later sir.

I'm sorry sir, but you are wrong. The timing is dead on. Mitsubishi can't even time it that good.

Also make SURE your firing order is correct, I seen plug wires put on wrong before and the truck did the same thing. But definately check timing and the cat. Let us know what fixes it when you do get it.

Spark plugs in the correct order.

You most likely have a Knock or Phantom Knock issue.

Knock will cause your Timing to be Retarded, which will cause your Exhaust Gas Temp to skyrocket.

You need to log Knock, if you can't log Knock with your logger then log Timing Advance and see if it looks normal.

If you still have a 99 motor, you can't adjust Base Timing, only a 1G CAS will allow this.


Which year(or model#) ecu is your replacement?


Edit: Don't drive your car until you fix your EGT issue, you will burn up your Exhaust Valves.
A burnt up Exhaust Valve can also cause heat issues, because unburnt gases are exiting the motor early.

A 97 AWD Turbo ECU. I think there is only one difference between the awd and fwd ecu. I don't think it matters. If it was coming from the motor wouldn't the Exhaust be cherrry red directly next to the head? because its not, its like 2 inches or 2.5 inches from the head where it starts to glow. And then the whole hot side of the turbo is glowing, it starts to glow at the bottom of the turbine housing, not coming out of the head. IDK if that helps

 

[420a_turbo]

Im assuming the problem was there before you changed ECU right? If not it could, possibly be the issue-maybe. Not likely though.

Have you checked the spring in your WG? If its shot your turbo could be spooling/surging/not spooling like crazy, it would act as if there was no spring really and that could cause your issue. WG opening/closing on its own can cause some lean/rich issues and def. make this happen.

It would be worth checking into anyways.

 

[sillylepricon37]

Im assuming the problem was there before you changed ECU right? If not it could, possibly be the issue-maybe. Not likely though.

Have you checked the spring in your WG? If its shot your turbo could be spooling/surging/not spooling like crazy, it would act as if there was no spring really and that could cause your issue. WG opening/closing on its own can cause some lean/rich issues and def. make this happen.

It would be worth checking into anyways.

Yes the problem was there before i changed the ecu. I have an extra internal wastegate but i have no idea if its good or not.

 

[ckrummy]

It sounds like it has a huge vacuum leak. That would effect everything that is vacuum controlled like your wastegate, fuel pressure regulator, egr, and bov. Pluss it will have similar symptoms to having timing off.

 

[sillylepricon37]

It sounds like it has a huge vacuum leak. That would effect everything that is vacuum controlled like your wastegate, fuel pressure regulator, egr, and bov. Pluss it will have similar symptoms to having timing off.

How do i check vaccum leaks.? and my pcv valve rattles a little bit. I pulled it off and checked it, its good, but it rattles kind of.

 

[ckrummy]

PCV valves are supposed to rattle. Visual inspection is the first method on non turbo's there are vacuum ports on the TB on the PCV tube on the back of the manifold and i think one attached to the fuel rail. The more precise method is to use a vacuum gauge and see what your getting you should be at least 18 if i remember right. And another method is to use an unlit torch and poke around until it runs better, if it runs better than you have a leak right around there. Also unplug the Brake booster and plug the hose with your finger. Good luck

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Well to help narrow this down please answer some of these questions:

Does it glow red when you're just sitting there at idle?
Or is is only after you've been driving around?
Does it do it when you drive without boosting?
Or is it only when you boost?

When you say white smoke only when cold outside. What temperature are you considering cold?
It's normal for a car to blow white condensation (steam) when warming up on a 30* day. After the car is warm though that should go away.
It's not normal for a car to blow white smoke on a 70* day.

How old is your turbo?
How many miles are on it?
Any shaft play?
Any white smoke out the exhaust while in boost?
Any wet oil residue in your exhaust pipe?

When you say the wastegate opens up too early, what do you mean?
Are you not hitting the boost you want it set for?
Is the turbo boosting at all?
What pressure is it set to?

Do you have a logger?
How do you know you are pulling timing?

This is what I'm getting at: If your turbo is bad (not boosting) it will throw smoke out the tailpipe, make your manifold and turbine housing glow red hot, and you'll feel like it has absolutely no power. Plus it might make some weird noises...

I had a 14b's shaft break on me 5 years ago, I pulled off the intake to check shaft play and it was fine. So I assumed all the coolant and oil in my exhaust was due to a blown head gasket. I swapped the gasket and it was still there. Turns out I should have pulled the turbo and checked the exhaust side. It caused all of the same symptoms you are describing.

 

[sillylepricon37]

Does it glow red when you're just sitting there at idle? No

Or is is only after you've been driving around? Yes. I can drive 2-3 blocks down and it will glow.

Does it do it when you drive without boosting? No, If I keep the RPMs low, for instance 2k rpms or lower it doesnt glow. BUT I have never tested this theory. I have only gone 7 blocks like that and it didnt. I would imagine that yes it would still glow when i'm not boosting. But i do not want to try.

Or is it only when you boost? If i Boost then yes its glowing.

When you say white smoke only when cold outside. What temperature are you considering cold? like 30 degrees.

It's normal for a car to blow white condensation (steam) when warming up on a 30* day. After the car is warm though that should go away. It does

It's not normal for a car to blow white smoke on a 70* day. Doesnt blow white smoke on a warm day.

How old is your turbo? 3 years?
How many miles are on it? Kind of a lot. a guy ran 28psi off of the big 16g for 2 and a half years.

Any shaft play? normal shaft play

Any white smoke out the exhaust while in boost? no

Any wet oil residue in your exhaust pipe? no oil only water sometimes.

When you say the wastegate opens up too early, what do you mean? It sounds like a loud hilacious noise. Almost like a major major boost leak whenever i boost. But it is not a boost leak. The only way i can think to describe the sound is if you were to disconnect your exhaust and rev it up a little bit. It makes that sound when it hits boost at about 2.75k rpms

Are you not hitting the boost you want it set for? Correct.

Is the turbo boosting at all? Only if i push the throttle in a hair. I cannot floor it, because if i do it will spool and then the wastegate is open so it makes that noise and the car does not go any faster. (When it starts to boost i let off the throttle and then press the pedal in a little bit and then it wants to go. It drives better when the turbo is not spooling.)

What pressure is it set to? not really sure. not much though around stock setting

Do you have a logger? No

How do you know you are pulling timing? Because it seems like the car has no power. I seriously CANNOT go over 60mph no matter how hard i try. and trying to get the car to start off is a b*tch.

This is what I'm getting at: If your turbo is bad (not boosting) it will throw smoke out the tailpipe, make your manifold and turbine housing glow red hot, and you'll feel like it has absolutely no power. Plus it might make some weird noises...

I had a 14b's shaft break on me 5 years ago, I pulled off the intake to check shaft play and it was fine. So I assumed all the coolant and oil in my exhaust was due to a blown head gasket. I swapped the gasket and it was still there. Turns out I should have pulled the turbo and checked the exhaust side. It caused all of the same symptoms you are describing.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Well... The only thing I can think of about your wastegate making a hellacious noise would be an atmospheric dump. Where the wastegate's exhaust is dumped to the atmosphere.

What kind of O2 housing do you have on there? Can you post a picture of the engine bay for us? Maybe we'll spot a few things.

So, you've hooked up a coupler to the turbo's inlet and pressurized it with a compressor to check for boost leaks with soap and water?

 

[1gcrazy]

Get 3g lifters. I had the exact same problem. Phantom knock is dumping fuel thinking you're getting knock. Thus the glowing manifold. Thus no power.

 

[Rob10_99]

So this miraculous timing set at 5* BTDC?

 

[rstchris]

If you are not tuned for those 550's you should start by putting the stock ones in. Then like stated above you should do a good boost leak and vaccuum leak test. Then listen to the lifters and see if they are tapping. Does it idle smooth?

 

[Colt4G63 also]

1) This timing that's set better than Mitsubishi can do it, was it done with a timing light? Was it done based on the timing mark stamped into the outer ring of the harmonic balancer? Is the harmonic balancer accurate? The outer ring can slip sometimes. However, if it's a 2g, can you even set ignition timing? I think it's not adjustable. On the other hand, if the keyway in the crank broke, It could allow the entire harmonic balancer to turn. That would retard the timing of the tone ring and consequently retard your timing. Retarded spark timing could shoot exessive fire into your turbo.

2) Are you sure the cam timing is right? Advanced exhaust cam timing could shoot exessive fire into your exhaust.

3) How did you test the converter? Did you try driving it with your wideband removed to relieve pressure? Or better yet, the entire converter removed? A plugged converter could cause exessive exhaust heat, prevent spoolup, and force all the exhaust out of your external wastegate dump. I assume it's external right? You said it makes a hellacious noise when it opens.

 

[sillylepricon37]

Well... The only thing I can think of about your wastegate making a hellacious noise would be an atmospheric dump. Where the wastegate's exhaust is dumped to the atmosphere.

What kind of O2 housing do you have on there? Can you post a picture of the engine bay for us? Maybe we'll spot a few things.

So, you've hooked up a coupler to the turbo's inlet and pressurized it with a compressor to check for boost leaks with soap and water?

I have an O2 dump. No I haven't done that boost leak test.

If you are not tuned for those 550's you should start by putting the stock ones in. Then like stated above you should do a good boost leak and vaccuum leak test. Then listen to the lifters and see if they are tapping. Does it idle smooth?

I have had the stock ones in. I just checked to make sure it wasnt the injectors by putting my 550s on. then i put my stock ones back on. And it purs at idle on a warm start up.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Well then... The O2 dump is making that sound that you're hearing when your wastegate opens up.

And when people ask you if you've done a boost leak test. This is what they're talking about:

You want to pressurize the turbo inlet so that you can spray soapy water on your IC piping looking for leaks. Any leaks you'll want to fix until they don't leak. Spray down all the IC pipes and the intake area around the Throttle Body and the Injectors where they meet the head.

 

[sillylepricon37]

1) This timing that's set better than Mitsubishi can do it, was it done with a timing light? Was it done based on the timing mark stamped into the outer ring of the harmonic balancer? Is the harmonic balancer accurate? The outer ring can slip sometimes. However, if it's a 2g, can you even set ignition timing? I think it's not adjustable. On the other hand, if the keyway in the crank broke, It could allow the entire harmonic balancer to turn. That would retard the timing of the tone ring and consequently retard your timing. Retarded spark timing could shoot exessive fire into your turbo.

2) Are you sure the cam timing is right? Advanced exhaust cam timing could shoot exessive fire into your exhaust.

3) How did you test the converter? Did you try driving it with your wideband removed to relieve pressure? Or better yet, the entire converter removed? A plugged converter could cause exessive exhaust heat, prevent spoolup, and force all the exhaust out of your external wastegate dump. I assume it's external right? You said it makes a hellacious noise when it opens.

-It's an Internal Wastegate. O2 Downpipe
-I checked the converter by disconnecting the whole exhaust.
-No Wideband hooked up. Do have one but i am waiting for a new exhaust.
-Cam Timing is tight yes.
-About the timing- My Friend Did the Timing when the engine was out. We had the brand new kit. So nothing was re used. No big deal, We through the motor in. Everyone On this website is telling me Timing Timing Timing! So i told him and he got mad . He came over one day and checked the timing. I gave him a 1/2 in ratchet and he slowly turned it and said Wow It is so dead on it doesnt get any better. It doesn't even come from the factory timed this good. So that was that. I can tell him what you are saying but i don't think its the timing

But why is my Wastegate opening early!?

 

[ckrummy]

Did you check for a vacuum leak

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

Boost leak test, again.