My new 92 Talon tsi AWD problem

[rex_offroad]

ok so edited my thread heres what i have done to my 4g63t 6bolt 1g and still it will not fire/start

changed plugs
changed plug wires
changed fuel filter
changed resistor pack
changed the sensor on the intake manifold
swapped out fuel injectors to 450cc
retimed the car and changed the timing belt and pulley belts

The injectors have 12volts and the fuel pump is working and getting fuel to the fuel rail
i checked the plugs and they are firing
the CAS seems to be working properly (has power also when you unplug it and plug it back in it reads and sounds like its adjusting plus the fuel pump kicks on)

im not to sure what else i can do at this point anyone?

 

[96awd]

I had the same problem in my little brother's spyder gst. The i/c piping was our only problem. we did end up having to buy a new distributor, plugs, wires, and starter. if you are getting spark throughout, that might be your only problem.

 

[steve]

Are you running speed density?

It's not going to want to do much without the intake piping if your running a MAF.

 

[rex_offroad]

to be honest with you im not sure what you mean by speed density. i actually dont have the car at the moment its being delivered to me this weekend from the guy i traded with im just looking to get a idea of what im dealing with. also it is running a MAF sensor

oh and it has no ecu upgrades/piggybacks

 

[steve]

Try google if you don't know what speed density is.

Since your running a MAF you need the intake piping done before you try starting the car again.

 

[rex_offroad]

ok ill get back to this thread when i get the pipping installed and some other misc items this weekend and update thanks

 

[rex_offroad]

ok the car still will not start the following is what i have done

install 3IN i/c piping and a FMIC
3IN pipe to turbo with MAF attached with out the can/lid its MIA
spark plugs
plug wires
pulled injectors and cleaned them out (450cc)
installed new fuel filter
New battery and terminals
the cars getting perfect spark at the plugs and i tested the fuel at the filter and it sprays fuel like no other so im assuming its getting fuel..... im lost at this point if anyone has any ideas please type away

 

[steve]

It looks like we never discussed the basics so...

What's your compression in each cylinder?
Does the CEL turn on for 5 seconds and turn off then you turn the ignition on?
Does the factory boost gauge move to zero until you start cranking?
Does the tach move during cranking?
Have you checked the wires to the Engine Coolant Temp sensor?
Do you have a datalogger?

 

[rex_offroad]

have not checked compression yet
CEL does turn on for 5 secs when keys is turned on
factory boost gauge sits at 0 before and during cranking
tach does move during cranking
i have not tested the coolant sensor
i do not have a data logger i honestly have only had this car for 4 or 5 days


also while cranking the intake with the MAF seems to barely pulling in any air also during cranking there is a odd loud whining noise from the engine bay

by the way what setting on my voltmeter should i use to test these sensors ?

 

[steve]

factory boost gauge sits at 0 before and during cranking

also while cranking the intake with the MAF seems to barely pulling in any air also during cranking there is a odd loud whining noise from the engine bay

Make sure the gauge is staying at 0 during cranking. It shouldn't.
As you noted there should be air moving through the MAF and if the ECU was seeing it the boost gauge should be dropping to the -7 range.

You need to measure the compression and track down the noise.

 

[rex_offroad]

the boost gauge is not moving for sure when it stops raining ill go ahead and install my boost gauge just incase the factory one is just not hooked up or messed up.

it is pulling air through but not much hard to explain but ill try if you were to put your hand over the 2 channels which run beside the sensor/honeycomb area it feels like its pulling in just enough to notice

ill also do a compression test asap


if my pipe running from the turbo inlet which has the ridiculously over sized can/MAF sensor on it was not air tight would this cause a no start also how about without having the other half of the can which holds the filter secure and blocks it from dirt would that cause a no start?

i have come to the conclusion its not getting fuel... is there any way to check the resistor pack for the injectors?

 

[rex_offroad]

anyone have any other ideas???

 

[Domenict]

im new to this world so i dont even know if you can do this. Can you pull the fuel rail off and see if the injectors are firing? I think you said you had 12 volts but is the 12 volts pulsing? Just a thought, and like i said im new to these cars and am not positive on the systems, thats what i would do to a GM.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

i have come to the conclusion its not getting fuel... is there any way to check the resistor pack for the injectors?

You should be able to get a noid light pretty cheap, or make one. Plug that in at the injector plug and watch for the light to blink during cranking.

You also might want to take the upper timing cover with three 10mm bolts off and see if the cams are turning.

 

[rex_offroad]

im actually reading now how to make the noid tester so good idea!

yeah the cams are turning over and they are in time i have the covers off at the moment the guy before me cut them all up for some dam reason so once i get everything good to go ill get new covers from the junkyard

 

[talon187]

i would check compression and timing marks.if you take the cas out and turn it by hand you should hear the injectors firing. if not then theres your problem

 

[rex_offroad]

I did the CAS hand crank test late this evening and the injectors sound like they are going but im not certain but i am sure the fuel pump kicks on and delivers fuel to the rail

All timing marks are good i just retimed everything but i think i may retime it tomorrow just for the hell of it to be honest

I have been wanting to do the compression but i havent gotten around to it yet ill put it on the list for sure!


??? Could it be my coil pack isnt sending a strong enough spark? i checked the plugs one by one and got a white spark but it seemed very slow or should a say a long delay between spark


good ideas lets keep them rolling

 

[turbo_lag92]

mess with the cas. move it forward towards the front of the car. that should advance it. otherwise move it back if you can towards the intake manifold. sounds to me like your not getting spark?

 

[91DSMdave]

my one friends car did almost the same thing, and his ecu was fried, we replaced it and it fired right up. might not be it but im sharing my experience

 

[talon187]

pull the wires crank see if theres spark. My guess timing is off or bent valves compression test it

 

[rex_offroad]

TURBO - im getting spark but im begining to believe its not a strong enough spark or maybe not fast enough but also i dont think the injectors are pulsing but i know they have 12v's so when the sun come up ill do more testing... im just looking to get more ideas from everyone so i have some more ammo to shoot at this screaming eagle

91DSMDAVE- thanks thats the one other thing i plan to try and swap out tomorrow just need to get ahold of some old friends

TALON -

I have pulled the wires and plugs and tested them one by one and had spark im just wondering if maybe its weak or the time between each spark is causing a issue

I just retimed it yesterday but im going to redo it tomorrow just incase and also try and get a compression tester from good ol autozone

 

[tsd123]

I had the same problem, and it ended up being my head gasket. The compression test will tell. Good luck!

 

[rex_offroad]

TSD - yeah looks like ill being doing this test tomorrow.... man i hope my valves arent bent this head and valvetrain is all brand new from the previous owner but just incase im reading the tech articles on it in advance

??????????????
Quick question - if one of my valves were bent or if i had real low compression wouldn't my car at least fire or back fire?