My 95 AWD Talon troubleshooting. (Nikki)

[Zonnashi]

Last update Dec 29th
(Long read)
A few days ago (Dec 1st) I gave in and finally purchased myself a DSM. My friend has talked non stop about his GST back home, leading me to go with a DSM over my other interest, a 240sx. Anyways, I'm just using this to kind of track my progress, and I suppose if anyone else has advice or has experienced the same issues, to learn that also. Also, I don't have a large background working on cars, but I am doing my best to learn with this, so I might make mistakes, and overlook something, feel free to inform me.

From previous owner this is the issues leading up to its current state. About a week before it had drained all the oil from car while their friend was driving. I asked if it had continued to be driven without any, said maybe a mile or two. It was the seal on oil cooler, and replaced. Then he said while on highway one day it started overheating and he lost all power and engine started making all kinds of noise. He pulled over and popped hood, everything hot as heck, and exhaust manifold red hot.

Dec 1st: After work I go and take a look again at the car I'm thinking of buying, a nice red 95 AWD Talon. 109k miles, M/T, great interior, clean paint job, Motegi wheels, bone stock, and best of all, doesn't run due to engine issues. I wind up buying it along with all the parts he had laying around for it. Which include (all in boxes still) New break pads all around, full Tokico suspension, OEM clutch, OEM fuel pump, engine mount, and a 1g driver handle (he ordered it on accident, then the correct 2g, so if you need one, PM me haha.)


(My DD and my Project)
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o162/Zonnashi/Nikki/IMG_2904.jpg

(All the parts included.)
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o162/Zonnashi/Nikki/IMG_2945.jpg

Dec 2: Get off work and get the car towed home to my house No time really to address the issues by the time I get home. Brianstorming with buddy we wonder if it may be (not banking on it, just kind of hoping) it may be a backed up catalytic converter. At this point I haven't turned the car over yet, the battery is dead and honestly not too terribly concerned if it doesn't wind up working, just makes my plans to replace engine later, come a bit sooner.


(Getting put on flatbed)
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o162/Zonnashi/Nikki/IMG_2910.jpg

(Arriving at house)
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o162/Zonnashi/Nikki/IMG_2911.jpg

(Engine bay) http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o162/Zonnashi/Nikki/IMG_2914.jpg

(In my drive way)
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o162/Zonnashi/Nikki/IMG_2915.jpg

(Initial look at cat bolts (Broken grounding strap also))
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o162/Zonnashi/Nikki/IMG_2923.jpg

(Other Side of cat)
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o162/Zonnashi/Nikki/IMG_2925.jpg

Dec 4: First time turning car over, had to bring my DD into back yard to jump start it. This is what we find as we turn her over the first time.
Nikki :: Startupnoise.mp4 video by Zonnashi - Photobucket
the next time we start it the hard knock goes away and idles like this. (Smoke is from PB blaster on exhaust manifold burning off)
Nikki :: IMG_2961.mp4 video by Zonnashi - Photobucket
Can't figure out where the sound is coming from. It sounds like a top noise, but seems to be coming lower maybe mid, hard to tell. We go ahead and start taking off coil pack and valve cover to see if we can visually see anything. Gets too dark to do anything else really. And call it a day, though initial look under cover and it seems pretty clean, and our concern is no longer the cat.
(Jumping the talon from behind)
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o162/Zonnashi/Nikki/IMG_2953.jpg

(Gap between in order to get the cables to reach) http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o162/Zonnashi/Nikki/IMG_2955.jpg

(Cams and valves)
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o162/Zonnashi/Nikki/IMG_2967.jpg

DEC 4/5 night/morning: This is where the car got named Nikki. After having to stop work, and nothing better to do, me and some friends sat around a fire in the back yard drinking. We got on the subject of car names and this statement was said. "You know what, she needs a name that makes you think of a stripper who's sexy, fast, needy and a gold digger." With a bit of help from our friend alcohol, Nikki was chosen.

Dec 5:
So we ( my neighbor who has worked on cars for longer than I've been alive has been helping me through this process) go ahead and crank over the engine without the cover on with the coil packs put back in. Aside from splashing oil we can't find anything wrong. He had taken a rod and placed it against the rockers and valves, saying if it was on the one if it had an issued, when he applied pressure it would change the noise a bit by doing so. No conclusion.
Also earlier we had wondered about oil pressure as it seemed to have poor flow when we looked in at an earlier day through oil cap. (gauge is busted, previous owner said alternator belt had snapped and broke the gauges wire.) I notice at this time that there is oil coming out of one port, but the one that seems identical on opposite side, has none coming out of it. Haven't addressed this, but noted.

(Right side are the ports I am talking about, the red circled one being the one with no flow.)
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o162/Zonnashi/Nikki/IMG_29672.jpg

At this point we remove spark plugs and go ahead and do a compression test. Results as Follow. (1 being by timing belt)
1 Dry 165 -2 Dry 130-3 Dry 175- 4 Dry 185
1 Wet 170-2 Wet 140-3 Wet 190-4 Wet 190
Something is awry with number 2 it seems. Possibly connecting rod bearings my friend says. Not sure at this point that is the end of this day.
(Spark plugs left to right 4-1)
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o162/Zonnashi/Nikki/IMG_2985.jpg

Found this, not bone stock I guess.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o162/Zonnashi/Nikki/IMG_2996.jpg

Dec 6th:
Well, today the person helping me wanted to take one more look at valves and such with the cover off before we put it back on and went to the bottom of engine. Start her up, don't see anything conclusive but then she idles real hard, makes some hard knocks and stalls out. Now the car won't start again. Mistake number 1? Quite possibly. This is all a learning experience for me though, so am I mad, no. Am I a bit sad since there is always that part of you that hopes the next place you look will fix it, yes haha. And also didn't realize quite what else had to be removed to get oil pan out till I really got down there and looked. Time to use that search function and see if there is an easier way haha.

Dec 28th:
Been busy at work without time to get to car. Started getting things prepped to to pull oil pan. got the downpipe and transfer case out of the way no problem. Now the issue i have is that the front driver CV shaft is in the way of two bolts. Was getting dark by this time so I called it a night and going to address it tomorrow. Unfamiliar with it, but hope to figure it out.

All this extra time to think makes me want to just do six bolt instead of going into this engine. I already know down the line I am going to, not that the swap is easier per say but like my friend said, if something breaks, that's just an excuse to replace it with the better part not the same one. If this is the case I'll need to find somewhere to get me an engine. I know a friend got an engine from jdmsource.ca and spoke highly of them. But I don't see much of that name on this site even with search. And I'm sure there are better prices elsewhere. Suggestions of where are more than welcome.

Dec 29th:
Got the CV axle off after a while of going back and forth to advanced auto for one thing after another that I either forgot or my neighbor thought he had and didn't. By the time I was able to get the pan off he had to leave. Anyways this is what I had found. First thing I notice as I pull pan down is some stuff hanging of the metal sump hanging down, I poke at it a lil and one of the things come off on my finger. i didn't get picture, though it's in the pan and i'll get a pic tomorrow, but they were small metal shavings, and the one in patiular that came off on hand was decently long and curled like shavings from drilling metal. Not a good sign.
(The smaller shavings in sump)
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o162/Zonnashi/Nikki/1000000471.jpg
So at this point you probably have a good idea what I find next.
Connecting rod 95 AWD Talon - YouTube
(Crankshaft)
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o162/Zonnashi/Nikki/1000000480.jpg
(Cap)
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o162/Zonnashi/Nikki/1000000486.jpg
I am not familiar with this so I am asking your input. I know people mention bluing and gouges and such. I didn't feel any gouges or grooves in the cap, connecting rod, or camshaft, however I may not see something you may.

 

[crusada]

Ok to start with 1 of the many things . It sounds like a rod knock to be honest. Just my opinion there. The compression number for 2 as you guessed thats not good. The crank pulley looks like it may be just a cheap ebay one honestly usually a remake of the OEMs and made a different color. In my opinion with the engine as you said replace it or its rebuild time. If you planning on replacing the motor in my opinion id keep the old motor and eventually do a stock rebuild and maybe resell it make a little money back if possible just my opinion though. If a wiseman would want to chime in here it would be great give some other opinions BUD if your out there opinion sir.

 

[CanadianTalonTC]

Check for metal shavings in the pan, I'm going to go with rod knock here.

Not the stock crank pulley.

Joel

 

[Zonnashi]

Rod knock, gotcha. We'll check into that. Pulling the pan was one of the next things we were going to do actually. I figured that wasn't stock, thought I'd ask though.

 

[airmail96]

So you wound up snagging the red one after all, let us know what you find after pulling the pan . You should start a build thread.

 

[Zonnashi]

So you wound up snagging the red one after all, let us know what you find after pulling the pan . You should start a build thread.

This one is actually a different one than we had talked about the first time. That one was missing side skirts, had body damage, extremely faded paint, missing head light bla bla bla and he wanted the same for that as the other guy asked for this one. Biggest difference was that one had a big 16g on it, exhaust and FMIC, and some various other things. But to me a clean and overall good condition, stock, engine prob car was more desirable than that partially modded engine prob one. I'm kind of making this my unofficial build thread since I can't post anywhere but here yet -_-, once I am free of this forum I plan on transferring this all into a build thread.

 

[Zonnashi]

Dec 6th: Well, today the person helping me wanted to take one more look at valves and such with the cover off before we put it back on and went to the bottom of engine. Start her up, don't see anything conclusive but then she idles real hard, makes some hard knocks and stalls out. Now the car won't start again. Mistake number 1? Quite possibly. This is all a learning experience for me though, so am I mad, no. Am I a bit sad since there is always that part of you that hopes the next place you look will fix it, yes haha. And also didn't realize quite what else had to be removed to get oil pan out till I really got down there and looked. Time to use that search function and see if there is an easier way haha.

 

[crusada]

Unfortunately not to bust ## bubble but theres no easier way. Its a Pita getting the pan down . Im still guessing the noise is the rod knocking and if it wont crank now there may be more damage. Id say rip it down and inspect for damage order parts and a rebuild is in order. The other option is engine swap.

 

[Zonnashi]

Unfortunately not to bust ## bubble but theres no easier way. Its a Pita getting the pan down . Im still guessing the noise is the rod knocking and if it wont crank now there may be more damage. Id say rip it down and inspect for damage to parts and a rebuild is in order. The other option is engine swap.

That is what i was afraid of. I did go into this knowing this was a good possibility, but couldn't help but hope I could have a bit of fun on a stock engine before I got a six bolt in it.

 

[crusada]

That would have been nice to do but it sucks how it had to work out.

 

[Mjrsplat]

It doesn't necessarily need a six bolt, a 98-99 7 bolt would be just fine. A direct replacement that doesn't have a high probability of crankwalk. Also, probably cheaper/easier to find.

 

[awdjosh]

Did yall inspect all the timing and balance shaft crap? You can check for rod bearing play by removing a spark plug on suspect cyclinder and taking a 18" 3/8 extension and gently pushing down ontop of the piston. If there's up and down play that doesn't feel right its going to stand out.

 

[Zonnashi]

Did yall inspect all the timing and balance shaft crap? You can check for rod bearing play by removing a spark plug on suspect cyclinder and taking a 18" 3/8 extension and gently pushing down ontop of the piston. If there's up and down play that doesn't feel right its going to stand out.

The next thing we planned to do was to check the belts. It's easier to pull a wheel and look at that than get the oil pan off. And I never would have thought of that option there. I'm going to have to go get one of those and try that. Should I try and get the piston in a certain position while doing this or any be ok?

 

[Zonnashi]

Dec 28th:
Been busy at work without time to get to car. Started getting things prepped to to pull oil pan. got the downpipe and transfer case out of the way no problem. Now the issue i have is that the front driver CV shaft is in the way of two bolts. Was getting dark bu this time so i called it a night and going to address it tomorrow. Unfamiliar with it, but hope to figure it out.
All this extra time to think makes me want to just do six bolt instead of going into this engine. I already know down the line I am going to, not that the swap is easier per say but like my friend said, if something breaks, that's just an excuse to replace it with the better part not the same one. If this is the case I'll need to find somewhere to get me an engine. I know a friend got an engine from jdmsource.ca and spoke highly of them. But I don't see much of that name on this site even with search. And I'm sure there are better prices elsewhere. Suggestions of where are more than welcome.

 

[MotorHead265]

Sounds like rod knock to me. Ouchh

 

[Zonnashi]

Got the CV axle off after a while of going back and forth to advanced auto for one thing after another that I either forgot or my neighbor thought he had and didn't. By the time I was able to get the pan off he had to leave. Anyways this is what I had found. First thing I notice as I pull pan down is some stuff hanging of the metal sump hanging down, I poke at it a lil and one of the things come off on my finger. i didn't get picture, though it's in the pan and i'll get a pic tomorrow, but they were small metal shavings, and the one in patiular that came off on hand was decently long and curled like shavings from drilling metal. Not a good sign.
(The smaller shavings in sump)
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o162/Zonnashi/Nikki/1000000471.jpg
So at this point you probably have a good idea what I find next.
Connecting rod 95 AWD Talon - YouTube
(Crankshaft)
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o162/Zonnashi/Nikki/1000000480.jpg
(Cap)
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o162/Zonnashi/Nikki/1000000486.jpg
I am not familiar with this so I am asking your input. I know people mention bluing and gouges and such. I didn't feel any gouges or grooves in the cap, connecting rod, or camshaft, however I may not see something you may.