2G Modded 98 TSi AWD will not idle

[Puddlejumper]

Good afternoon to all.

Last year I bought a '98 Talon TSi AWD. It has never run quite right, and now it barely runs at all. In my case I guess you'd say my car was "bought, not built". At least not by me. I have no experience tuning, and I have been reading all I can about idle issues and am still at a loss. Before anyone tells me to part it out or sell it, I am willing to do the work and learn! I want to be successful but I just need some direction, and I think I am one of the very few DSMers left in the DC area. There is just no support here. I think the nearest reputable shop is Rix Racing in Morgantown, WV. That is likely where this car will end up for it's tuning.

Symptoms: The car will not idle. It fluctuates between around 1000 RPM down to barely running, then back up, then back down. Usually it will cut off. On the few times I have taken it for a drive the car ran fine as long as I was rolling, but as soon as the wheels stopped it would try to idle down and die. Now the symptoms have changed a little bit. The battery died and I replaced it. After that it barely runs at all. Like even when I feather the throttle it chokes and sputters and tries to die. All the threads I have read say to check for boost leaks, and yes I do have a boost leak at the J pipe that I am trying to fix. I am trying to find a wrench that will fit in the space where the bolt is but I can't find one. But more to the point, I am on speed density and I thought that speed density was not affected by boost leaks?? Also many other suggestions like checking the FIAV are not relevant because the previous owner deleted that. Thinking about it, I don't know if it has an IAC or not?

Yes I BOUGHT the car. I didn't BUILD it. I realize most folks in this community are very experienced and built your own stuff. I started back in the 90s with an ESi. I crashed that car because I was a dumb kid. Was out of the scene for 20 years. It took me until now to finally own my dream car. Please don't gut me! Just give me a kick in the right direction to either diagnose or learn what I need to learn.

Thank you to whomever has taken the time to read this.

Like I said the car is slightly built. I have a dyno sheet showing 375 hp and 275 ft. lb. The mods are in my profile but here is a run down of what I think might be important:
2.0 w/5 speed
EGR, Evap, FPS, FIAV, Cruise delete
EBC
Speed density with GM IAT and Omni 4 bar
1g black top CAS
Gates racing timing belt
HKS 264/272 cams
AEM True time cam gears
EVO 8 valve springs and retainers
Top Line 3g lifters
Kiggly HLA oil pressure regulator
ARP head studs
balance shaft delete
EVO 3 oil filter housing
STM oil cooler
3 port sealed catch can
EVO 3 valve cover
EVO 3 16g
FP cast manifold
JM Fab O2 housing
Tial 38mm external wastegate
Hahn Racecraft DP
Thermal 3" Catback exhaust w/ test pipe
FP intake
EVO 3 intake manifold
1g TB
VRSF FMIC
TIAL BOV
Walbro 255 FP
FIC 1200 cc injectors
GM Ethanol sensor
Fuel Lab FPR
Fuel Lab fuel filter
6an fuel feed upgrade
STM Fuel pump rewire
Mishimoto radiator
Mishimoto Thermostat
SPAL 13" puller fan
ECM Link V3

Dave

 

[dwb]

I like your attitude! We can't afford to lose anymore DSMs and I think you'll be able to get 'er back on the road. That's quite a list of mods and the 1g CAS and TB makes me wonder if you have a 6-bolt swap.

I'd say check your ISC (IAC) but then you said it's been deleted. I know people have done that for "race cars" but not so much for a car that sees the street a lot. Without one, the ECU has no ability to control idle airflow and I'd kind of expect such behavior. That's not to say you can't get it to run better but it's not going to like cold starts or heavy electrical load. Normally, with a functioning ISC, I say adjust the BISS and check for a vacuum/boost leak post-throttle plate (FIAV, BISS, TB shaft seals, injectors, BOV, brake booster, PCV, FPR boost source, intake manifold gasket, etc.).

As far as the battery issue, have you checked your battery voltage either with ECMLink or a multimeter? You should see around 14v (+/- .5v). Anything less than ~13v or more than 14.5v would indicate an alternator issue. If that checks out, double check your vacuum lines and electrical connectors around the battery to make sure you didn't bump something loose or forget to plug something in when you swapped batteries. Make sure your ground wires are clean and tight (battery -> firewall and battery -> starter bolt) and you have the one from the firewall to the intake manifold.

Got any pictures of the bay? Maybe even a close up of the throttlebody area so we can see if the FIAV and ISC are deleted or not?

 

[KCDsmDude]

I had a very similar issue with a car I bought. I added the ISC back in and what do you know, idled like a champ.

 

[chrysler kid]

Show me a current picture of the engine bay, sounds like you have a bad vacuum leak

I always reccomend starting with a boost leak test for any problems with these cars, especially when it comes to idle problems

 

[Dericsh]

Hi Dave,

Super nice looking car! You’re in the right place with the right attitude to get this car back on the road. I see others have beat me to it as I’m typing, but adding the ISC back might be a good idea.

Also, have you seen Jafro’s tuning 101 videos? One of them explains setting up the TPS for proper readings, might be something to check also.

 

[Puddlejumper]

Thank you all for your replies. I actually did think about restoring the ISC and FIAV after reading several other threads. This will not be a race car, I might only race it a few times in it's life with me. That is why I am swapping the welded diff for a 4 spider. For drivability. And that is what I want with the engine as well. Drivability. I do have one engine bay pic, I will try to get some close up shots tomorrow. To add back the idle systems I suppose I'll have to acquire and install all the missing parts, but then I suppose I'll have to get it adjusted in Link? I have not tried at all to learn Link yet, it terrifies me. I saw a whole series of videos on youtube on how to use Link, I will study those and see what I can learn.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[DreamChaser7]

Looks like you’ve got a solid build there. Once you iron out the kinks it should be a pretty bad ass car!

 

[steve]

The second most powerful tool you have at hand is ECMLink. Getting a log posted will answer a lot of questions.

 

[Puddlejumper]

The second most powerful tool you have at hand is ECMLink. Getting a log posted will answer a lot of questions.

Ok, well I guess I need to get started with that then. Let me see what I can learn about link and recording a log and I will post up once I get it figured out. Will be no earlier than the weekend.

 

[Dericsh]

Once you get a log saved, just use the Add Photos button to upload it to a post.

 

[DreamChaser7]

Once you get a log saved, just use the Add Photos button to upload it to a post.

Remind me how to do this about 7 years from now…

 

[Puddlejumper]

First ever datalog with Link. I don't know how much this will help, but I am happy because I am finally beginning to earn how to tune and why.

 

[Puddlejumper]

Second log

 

[Puddlejumper]

One more.

 

[pauleyman]

Let it get to temperature. Log ISC position. I find it odd you never get much above 100 degrees after a full minute.

 

[Puddlejumper]

Ok. I’ll do another log on Thursday. Thanks.

 

[steve]

So who set up your DSMLink?
Just looking at the last log for the settings leaves me going what?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Why would would Coasting FC offset be 1810 rpm? It's usually at most a couple hundred.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Turn off Antilag until the car's fully tuned. Not convinced those are good settings anyway.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Don't use both Fuel tab Global deadtimes and InjBatteryAdj Direct Access. The DA Map gives you full control, don't need both.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Both the MAP sensor and the WB need to have Diaplay Values added. Somebody want to show him how. Plus lock the original sensors for those being repurposed.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

If you don't have an ISC changing the FastIdleXXISCPos isn't going to help and in this case if you did it's going to make it harder to get the car to idle when cold.

I can't comment on the VE table or the Fuel Maps other than to say they look interesting.

 

[Puddlejumper]

So who set up your DSMLink?
Just looking at the last log for the settings leaves me going what?

I can't comment on the VE table or the Fuel Maps other than to say they look interesting.

I bought this car from a young man, much too young to have been around when these cars were running the streets. I was impressed at how much he loved the platform and he had a lot of pride in building out a car that was older than he was. I cannot vouch for his tuning skills and I hope his mechanical skills were as good as I thought they were at the time. I was looking through the settings but before I could make changes I need to keep learning. I will read up on each of the issues you mention. Would it be a good start to get a remote tune from a known tuner, or read and learn and adjust it myself?

 

[DogWhistle]

A remote tune is certainly an option and you may wind up doing that, but any tuner is going to need your car mechanically is as perfect mechanical shape as possible.

A couple of items jumped out: Your temp sensor may be off. This will cause improper AF mixture on even a stock car. There are two temp sensors on the coolant housing. One for the gauge and one for the ECU.

Secondly, a missing ISC will make lift and off-throttle and idle tough to dial in. We don’t run an FIAV, but need an ISC in our northern climate to even have a chance at cold idle.

Sure like your attitude. These cars operate as a result of at least 50 smaller settings and you’ll get there.