Mitsubishi Diesel Engine

[Velo7825]

I'm glad to see you finally got an engine to get this project going. I had followed the thread for awhile and assumed you had given up.

I don't know much about diesels other then the compression ingnition. Why is their a pully on the left side where the intake manifold would be. Is that the injector pump or something.

 

[Morphius]

I'm glad to see you finally got an engine to get this project going. I had followed the thread for awhile and assumed you had given up.

Given up, no. Just still trying to find a motor worth buying. The only 4D55 I've found is in California. With shipping, it brings the total to about $1K. On a motor that already has high miles. I think the JDM motor will be better. Granted it's costing me $1.3K, but it's only got 30K miles on it. And it's made to drop/bolt in the car. No adapter plate needed for the tranny.

I don't know much about diesels other then the compression ingnition. Why is their a pully on the left side where the intake manifold would be. Is that the injector pump or something.

Yes, there is an injection pump in the location where a intake normally is on the 4GXX series motors. Thus, the pulley, high and right of the cam gears.

 

[DSM Storm]

Ok. What I've found thus far:

The block is simliar in bore/stroke to the G54B......... ie. the starion block. However, because is wears the 4D designation, it may have a block/tranny bolt pattern like that of the 4G engines.... ie 4G63 and 4G64. Hopefully soon, I'll locate a block to verify.

The head has 5 studs per cylinder vs the G54B's four. Something I'm looking into is the spacing of the bores. Potential for a DOHC head to fit? Would be nice...... OR, use the 4D55 head with a 4G64 block.

The compression ratio is 21:1. This is due in large part to the flat head. The valves are flush with the bottom of the head. No chamber. SO, if I incorporate a DOHC head, I loose compression. I need to stay above 16:1. Anyone know the chamber volume of a 2.0L DOHC head?

What is the maximum overbore allowed on the 4G64 block? Could you go out to 91mm. (Sounds excesssive, but I've seen 60's sixes that you could do that easily. )

Who sells domed 4G64 pistons? What is C/R with them? How about custom pistons. I'd want to minimize the clearance with the DOHC head. However, how will they burn? That really wouldn't give good geometry for Compression Ingition (CI).

Anyone know of DOHC 4cyl head out that is flat with next to no combustion chamber?

Not sure if you got this already, but the DSM heads average a volume around 48cc.

Storm

 

[Kevin Jewer]

Couple thoughts. Another part of the reason diesels rev low is the weight of the compents. Diesels rattle the pistons all ocer the place (that big rig noise) so they are built strong to take the abuse. The rods are usually damn strong too. Thats why trucks are making 1200 ftlbs on stock internals, its all overbuilt So the weight makes high rpm use difficult.

As far as nitrous goes, its typically used to drop EGTs. On a diesel, the more fuel you add the higher EGTs go. You need more airflow to lean it out and brinf it down. At some point, just like with our cars, you cant or dont want to add more turbo or more boost. Adding nitrous is a great way to get more "air" through the motor to lean things back out and get EGTs down. Diesels are quite different from gas motors in some ways. Trying to figure out my cummins TD is like starting all over again

 

[Morphius]

Well, it's here. I got the engine/tranny this past week. I'll try to get some closeup pics of it posted this weekend. I've got numerous parts on their way including two different injection pumps and the makings for a 3 1/2 inch exhaust system, besides the front mount IC and Holset turbo for things later. Work on it will begin next weekend after I gather most everything.

So, I'd thought I'd just post what my ultimate goal is with this: To increase my gas mileage. I'm shooting for 45mpg.

Now a byproduct of this will be various upgrades and most likely, a good increase in power. I'd like to dyno the car to document the performance increases. Any Michigan shops want to work with me and give me a price break in a dyno pull(s) for each stage? (Likely lots of exposure for being THE shop working with the first turbo diesel DSM.)

As of now, upgrades will be as follows......

Stage 1:
Stock N/A engine.
Stock injection pump.
Stock 2 1/4 exhaust.

Stage 2:
Upgrade to a 2.3L injection pump w/boost compensation.
1.6L turbo manifold
Adapted 14B turbo.
Stock sidemount IC
3 1/2 turboback exhaust

Stage 3:
Upgrade to a JDM 2.5L injection pump w/boost compensation
Large front mount IC
Holset turbo
Modified exhaust manifold.

Stage 4: (very dependent on the results of that above)
Modified 2.5L injection pump for more fuel flow.
Modified injectors
Propane injection

Stage 5:
Increase the displacement to 2.0L or more.
Port polish head.
O-ring the head.

 

[BertMcGertPI]

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents. Diesel trucks can be extremely fast. With the right driver a stock 2004 Chevy Duramax will take a stock Vette in the 1/8 mile. They also have the power to leave pieces of your tires imbedded in the pavement wherever you chose. Amazing idea keeep us updated.

 

[Morphius]

Pics as promised....

 

[Morphius]

more....

 

[Morphius]

and more...

 

[Morphius]

some more......

 

[Morphius]

yet more...

 

[Morphius]

last one...

 

[Velo7825]

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Is the intake and the exhaust on the same side?

 

[Defiant]

Let's hope it's good for some Sirius power.

What became of the TR-7?

 

[Morphius]

Is the intake and the exhaust on the same side?

Yes.

 

[Morphius]

Let's hope it's good for some Sirius power.

What became of the TR-7?

TR-7...... I think you're thinking of Leon (GRNDSM?), right?

 

[bastarddsm]

my god it looks like it is almost identical to a 4g6(1,3) shortblock wise have fun. what are ya gonna do injection pump wise?

 

[Morphius]

For those curious as to what is attached to the backside of the altenator (circled in red), it's a vacuum pump. You can also see it's plumbed into the oil filter assembly for lube.

 

[Morphius]

Cool toy I picked up for the Holset set-up....

 

[!gottadream!]

What is the progress of this monster? Did u get that little beast running? More pics?

 

[92redman]

Couple thoughts. Another part of the reason diesels rev low is the weight of the compents. Diesels rattle the pistons all ocer the place (that big rig noise) so they are built strong to take the abuse.

Actually most of the noise made by Diesel engines is from the fuel injection. Have you heard Cummins' common rail set up? it doesn't sound like a Diesel at all. You are correct about the weight of the components being the reason for such a low rev limit. It's the high compression ratio required to burn the fuel that requires strong(therefore heavy) internals.

If you could get some exotic materials for pistons/rods, maybe the rev limit could be raised significantly??

 

[JoL]

i want to see more pics...!!


keep up the good work, its very intersting!

 

[iridium0]

This is really cool. I had the idea of a making a diesel DSM running high boost a while ago, my car friends thought I was crazy So I was very interested to find out someone had figured out the first steps and was making good progress.

Anyway I think what your doing is great, keep up the good work. I am very curious to see how this turns out. I think you will easily break 45 MPG. The VW diesels can do up to 60 MPG depending on conditions!

Its going to be a insanely cool ride

 

[Morphius]

Well, I'm sure people are wondering what's going on, or have I given up. Nope. I'm still working on it. Parts are a little harder to find than the typical 4G63.

I'm in the process of eliminateing the balance shafts. As I've stated before, the motor is based off the sirus engine line...... the 4G63. However, there are some very small differences in parts that make it unique enough that you can't just slap 4g63 parts on it. Examples (and I'll likely post them in a FAQ of sorts later with pics) the water pumps are identical with the excpetion of a boss for the front cover. The front bracket the engine mount connects to (drivers side mount)...... it bolts to the front of block using the same three bolts as the 4g63, but it's missing a larger portion of the lower section where the idler pulley is and the angle of the top surface the mount lays on is different. Thus, a typical DSM mount doesn't fit. The front engine case is similiar........ nearly identical with the exception of three bosses and the altanator bracket. The two the hydraulic tensioner goes into are alot shorter and there is an additional boss again for the front cover. There is also a thinner section where the altanator goes on.

Other things that are different..... the timing belt and oil pan. The bolt pattern for the oil pan is the same but it is alot deeper and has a different oil bung on it for the vacuum pump oil return line. I have to plum a oil return line for the turbo, as there is none. The timing belt is also a catch. The belt is a unique length. The older D50's 4D56 belt is close in length but has a different cog profile. (for those of you wondering about the upgrade 4D56 pumps, I will switch pulleys to the 4D65 style) The DSM belt has the correct profile, but is shorter by about 6-8mm. I think the tension feature might be able to adjust enough to use the shorter DSM belt.

Anyhow, I've been taking my time to ensure I don't do anything rash just to get it on the road. I'll keep this updated.

 

[Morphius]

...the idea of a making a diesel DSM running high boost......

That's been something running through my head alot lately. When I started this, I thought I'd run a decent amount of boost. Say around 20. However, a converesation with diesel shop in Australia, I found that I maybe shouldn't run any boost on this motor. As I suspected, the 4D65 piston for NT to Turbo are different, not unlike the 4D56. The upper rings have a different profile with the sides of the pistons reinforced by steel around where the ring goes in. This is to combat the high cylinder pressure.

The gentleman also claimed the precombustion chamber is different turbo to NT. He couldn't tell me how, but had seen both and claimed there was a noticable difference. How this will affect it running, I don't know. Could be OK, or might be terrible.

So, I'm left with a tough decision. Turbo or NT. I think I'll take the chance, but will do so carefully by not running very high boost levels. Start in the area of 6-7 psi. The downside is if I do run high boost and damage a piston, the set of pistons and rings for the 4D65T runs around $700!! So, it's a tough decision.