Mitsubishi Diesel Engine

[iridium0]

I'd recommend going n/t at first and get everything working.

Diesel engines respond much better to turbos than gasoline engines, as knocking is not a concern. I had planned out a n/t to turbo conversion (gasoline engine), and talked to a guy running high boost (18 PSI) on his n/t and had no problems. As long as you controlled the knock it was okay, but one good knock and it was over, cracked rings or worse. I'm working on getting a JDM motor and tranny instead as it is cheaper than the conversion and then I have pistons that can take boost.

So I think running moderate levels of boost on a n/t diesel should be no problem, granted there will be considerably more pressure and the issues are different. The biggest thing is to upgrade the injectors. According the engine / fuel science class I took last year, the air intake in a n/t diesel is constant and only the fuel is varied to control it. So running boost won't do much of anything unless you can dump in extra fuel.

There are other options like propane injection to consider. Certainly a lot cheaper than filling a NOS bottle!


Its your call, but it might be simplest to get the n/t diesel running. After you've got that, then the performance can come. And if you break you pistons, well I guess its a good excuse to get those turbo ones in the motor :laugh:

 

[dot]

Now you can tow your DSM with....your other DSM!

 

[Defiant]

According the engine / fuel science class I took last year, the air intake in a n/t diesel is constant and only the fuel is varied to control it.

Well, kind of. Of course the air will vary with rpm, but there's no throttle plate to restrict air and to control engine speed- it's controlled by the amount of fuel burned in the chambers. In gasoline-engine terms, you're always running "full throttle", but you're not always giving it full fuel.

So running boost won't do much of anything unless you can dump in extra fuel.

There's still the limits imposed by the piston's cooling capabilites. Diesels can melt and scuff them just like gas engines, but not always for the same reason.

 

[iridium0]

Well, kind of. Of course the air will vary with rpm, but there's no throttle plate to restrict air and to control engine speed- it's controlled by the amount of fuel burned in the chambers. In gasoline-engine terms, you're always running "full throttle", but you're not always giving it full fuel.There's still the limits imposed by the piston's cooling capabilites. Diesels can melt and scuff them just like gas engines, but not always for the same reason.

Yeah thats what I meant, there is no restriction. The air flow varies, but it is not controlled. Thanks for making it clear. Basically you don't use all the oxygen until your at full throttle (if then). Because you don't have the boundary layer effect at the walls of the cylinder (cooling temp gradient) and combined with the high compression ration is why the engine is more efficient.

The pistons still can only take so much, and another thing that has not been discussed is the internals. Are they the same and will the hold the power? A turbo diesel can put out a lot of torque. That could bring up tranny issues as well.

 

[anomalyinva]

Good luck. I've been following this for a long time. I hope all goes well for your project.

 

[iridium0]

Hey just wondering how the project is going, haven't heard anything for a while...

It will be curious to see how well it will accelerate, a N/A diesel compared to the slightly bigger N/A gas engine.... I think there is a lot of potential with turbos and such.

 

[Morphius]

Hey just wondering how the project is going, haven't heard anything for a while...

Still in progress. The tool for adjusting injection timing is on back order until the end of May, so I've had to wait. I don't want to take a chance of damaging anything.

 

[KlowdDragon]

i love the sound of diesels, the big ones, thats gonna be sick if this turns out to be a successful swap that produces alot of power, you might start a revolution

 

[iridium0]

Still in progress. The tool for adjusting injection timing is on back order until the end of May, so I've had to wait. I don't want to take a chance of damaging anything.

Hey I am just curious about how your planning to address the computer end of things. Did you get a computer with the engine and how is the wiring going to be?? Are there a bunch of sensors and stuff or it is a more mechanical diesel. I love the old diesel engines that are all mechanical, no electrical stuff except for a starter. Can get them wet and no worries. I guess I am wondering it is like that or more like today's diesels which have wires and sensors all over the place.

 

[Morphius]

Hey I am just curious about how your planning to address the computer end of things. Did you get a computer with the engine and how is the wiring going to be?? Are there a bunch of sensors and stuff or it is a more mechanical diesel. I love the old diesel engines that are all mechanical, no electrical stuff except for a starter. Can get them wet and no worries. I guess I am wondering it is like that or more like today's diesels which have wires and sensors all over the place.

It's got an older mechanical style injection system. Nothing electrical to hook up other than the starter and the tach wire. It it works well I might investigate getting a set off injectors off the VM diesel that's in the Jeep Liberty. It's a CRD with electrically controlled injectors. Then all the sensors and harnesses would come into play.

 

[Superbeast406]

I just read thru this and noticed the earlier arguments on why deisels don't rev. All the things you've mentioned affect it, but you missed the major one- timing. A gasoline engine can rev so high, because of the fact that the spark can be initiated sooner in the stroke. The combustion process will always take the same amount of time to happen, but as the engine starts to speed up it spends less time at top dead center. The combustion process is ineffective if it can't keep up with the revs. There is no spark timing in a deisel engine. The combustion is always gonna happen when the fuel reaches the combustion point from compression. The only way to control timing in a greisel engine is with the injection pump. I think someone mentioned this already, they just didn't get specific.

 

[NinjaTech]

http://www.bandagbullet.com/

I honestly think its a great idea, I wouldnt expect it to be very fast, but still a cool idea. It would probably be similar to driving a souped up VW Turbo diesel jetta.

Even if it dosent go real fast, its unique and will get better gas milage than probably any other DSM on this site.

Pat

 

[JHanko]

It looks like the timing belt is tensioned only with a simple torsion spring on the idler at the rear of the block. Is that the case? If so, it would appear the engine rotates opposite its gasoline brother..

Jeff

 

[Morphius]

It looks like the timing belt is tensioned only with a simple torsion spring on the idler at the rear of the block. Is that the case?

Yes.

If so, it would appear the engine rotates opposite its gasoline brother..

No. It rotates in the same direction. The tensioner is similiar to any of those used on every SOHC they make.

 

[JHanko]

Isn't the tensioner on the other SOHC engines on the front side of the belt by the water pump?

Jeff

 

[Defiant]

Even if it dosent go real fast, its unique and will get better gas milage than probably any other DSM on this site.

That's for sure. It'll never use a drop of gas.

 

[NinjaTech]

That's for sure. It'll never use a drop of gas.

Smartass... You know what I was saying.

How about "Fuel Milage"

 

[DJpHGotBanned]

This is very awesome. Hope it all comes together. Now you've got me wanted to do a RWD Mitsu diesel. I think its so neat how all the stuff inter-relates with the Astron and Sirius motors. Its become a new hobby just to learn all the little differences. I even went as far as to start a thread on my site to gather info about all the motors. If any of you have any to add, I'd appreciate it.

http://beatingyou.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=153

What are you doing with that RWD tranny? SQC guys would probably want it. I wonder what model it is and if it can take more abuse than a Star/Quest tranny.

I totally love what you're doing. Keep up the good work.

 

[hellotbone]

I have some diesel background for making power and a couple suggestions. NA will probably not net you very much HP and a slower car then a stock DSM but a Turbo diesel with proper tuning will be FAST.

A diesel is different from a car in how it makes power I am sure you know. A diesel makes power by adding fuel and timing but with that added heat and EGT to remove the heat from the combusion chamber you need more air to cool the charge. Where the turbo comes in pretty much wtih a diesel you can put as much fuel you want to it as it can take as long as you have a way to get rid of it.

 

[Hazard]

is there any updates on this at all?

 

[gimmie11s]

I just read thru this and noticed the earlier arguments on why deisels don't rev. All the things you've mentioned affect it, but you missed the major one- timing. A gasoline engine can rev so high, because of the fact that the spark can be initiated sooner in the stroke. The combustion process will always take the same amount of time to happen, but as the engine starts to speed up it spends less time at top dead center. The combustion process is ineffective if it can't keep up with the revs. There is no spark timing in a deisel engine. The combustion is always gonna happen when the fuel reaches the combustion point from compression. The only way to control timing in a greisel engine is with the injection pump. I think someone mentioned this already, they just didn't get specific.

exactly. the idea of putting a DOHC head on this motor would be a waste of time IMO. spend time making it turbo.....

 

[Hazard]

I would totally do this swap if i could verify it would bolt in and not need a TON of fab.



this diesel he bought looks almost exactly like a 4g63 from the front, and already is fwd.. I have a car to put this in already, and i need a beater.. and i've been looking for a cheap diesel for a while

 

[Rogue_Ant]

Lol, I threw around the idea of getting an old Mighty-Max TD just for a tow vehicle.... but they are very hard to find.
I would like to see this project finished.

Rogue

 

[Morphius]

is there any updates on this at all?

Very near future. Been busy with a number of things including this.

 

[Morphius]

exactly. the idea of putting a DOHC head on this motor would be a waste of time IMO. spend time making it turbo.....

Waste? I really don't think so. The point of putting the DOHC head on it would not be for higher revs, but to help the engine breath better. It would also allow me to utilize those parts out there for the DOHC head like cams, cam gears, intake/exhaust manifolds, etc.