Mitsubishi Diesel Engine

[Raph]

Mitsubishi made a 2.5L 4cyl that was sold in the Mazda B2200/2600, Mighty Max/D50. Has anyone ever thought (or seen) someone use it in a performance application?

The good:
Torque monster!!
Cheaper fuel
Endless amount of boost you could push through it.
Propane injection
It'd respond to IC and turbo upgrades like a ICE.
Longer life

The bad:
Availability period? where to get them?
Aftermarket parts? not sure......
Low rpm engine


Potential upgrades:
DOHC head?
Cams
Exhaust manifold
Injectors
Intake manifold
Turbo
Intercooler
High flow pump


Thoughts anyone? If I only had the time....... wouldn't this make a wild swap into a DSM?

ok,im not reading this thread..

its not a Direct injection diesel.. it wont make power
its not a modern diesel... it wont make power
its a (dont get me wrong..but its a fact) japanese diesel...it wont make power

you can only associate a european(german) diesel with making power..its a fact..

you ever seen a station wagon/suv fly past you at 150 mph.. with two black clouds of smoke..?

no, hardly any diesel models are sold in the usa.. so you guys aint seen diesel power yet

power.. bmw 330d,540d X5 D .. Benz C/E/S/ML 350 cdi,400 cdi,420 cdi ( these are all turbo, some twin turbo) and these spin to 5500 + rpms

Audi/vw TDI ..2.0 tdI; 2.5TDI,3.0TDI,3.3 TDI ..TDIv10 (touraeg)

these cars respond great to mods.. the materials last (rods) and theyre built to fly down the Auto bahn.. an old mitsu diesel isnt made for any of that..

no,you cant change from indirect injection to a Radial pump direct setup.. or to a super high pressure Common Rail (thats where power is made) setup.

the japanese have slept on the diesel thing.. theyre still using the Radial Pumps.. thats soo 1990 .. ( the diesels are all delivered by other manufacturers ..the new Outlander has a VW diesel.. just an example)

 

[Morphius]

its not a Direct injection diesel.. it wont make power

Believe what you want.

its not a modern diesel... it wont make power

Right, you haven't been to the US tractor pull recently, have you? I realize the limitations of the engine. However, the only 'mods' I've seen for these are a power programmer for the late model diesels. There is no following or anyone I can find that's stepped up and installed larger intercoolers, larger turbo, injection pumps and injectors. It will make more power. I'm not saying it'll be making 500 hp, but it'll be more than stock. The potential of these motors havn't been tapped yet.

its a (dont get me wrong..but its a fact) japanese diesel...it wont make power

Believe what you want to believe.

you can only associate a european(german) diesel with making power..its a fact..

OK, then you haven't heard of Cummins? You must be german to make that statement.

no, hardly any diesel models are sold in the usa.. so you guys aint seen diesel power yet

Watched any truck pulls or truck drag racing yet?

no,you cant change from indirect injection to a Radial pump direct setup.. or to a super high pressure Common Rail (thats where power is made) setup.

Those that say you can't, never do.

the japanese have slept on the diesel thing.. theyre still using the Radial Pumps.. thats soo 1990 .. ( the diesels are all delivered by other manufacturers ..the new Outlander has a VW diesel.. just an example)

Big deal. It comes down to cost. It's cheaper to use mechanical injection than to use common rail setup.

 

[AHALLA05]

CHICKSDIGBOOST- how did u know that the rvr was AWD?

The more i look at the trans off the 4d68 the more i realize it looks like an evo trans. very much like an evo. the only part i cant tell is the part where it would connect with the t-case, if the rvr truely is awd. Could u take a pic of the trans where the passanger side axle would connect to the trans.

Ive been following the build so far and am very excited to see how this turns out. I cant wait to see you prove all the non believers wrong. Good luck and hope all goes well with the house search. Keep us updated. Thanks A.J.

 

[Raph]

Believe what you want.




Right, you haven't been to the US tractor pull recently, have you? I realize the limitations of the engine. However, the only 'mods' I've seen for these are a power programmer for the late model diesels. There is no following or anyone I can find that's stepped up and installed larger intercoolers, larger turbo, injection pumps and injectors. It will make more power. I'm not saying it'll be making 500 hp, but it'll be more than stock. The potential of these motors havn't been tapped yet.




Believe what you want to believe.








OK, then you haven't heard of Cummins? You must be german to make that statement.




Watched any truck pulls or truck drag racing yet?




Those that say you can't, never do.



Big deal. It comes down to cost. It's cheaper to use mechanical injection than to use common rail setup.

Well,think about it.

You seen those tractor pulls..in Holland they do that too..do you see the displacement on those engines? (not to mention weight and size?)

My point is,you cant beat High Pressure Direct Injection(1600 bar fuel pressure!) on HP per Litre displacement.

The Indirect Systems make barely 140-180 bar pressure (vs 1600!)

Theres no way you can swicht from an Indirect to Direct injection without major money..i cant imagine the cost.

I think its great that you want to do this...but leave the Diesel modding to the Modern setups that you can Chip Tune.


And Japanese Diesels dont make nearly Half the HP/Litre that the European (yes we can count the french..sigh..Twin Turbo FAP HDI) Diesels make.

Nissan and Mitsubishi use old Dinosaur Diesel technology.. barely getting 150 hp / no 300 torque..theyre using Euro Diesels in newer models

Toyota also doesnt make its own,niether does Honda (even though they claim they do.. wait the 1.7 makes no power )

I just want to save you from a dissapointment. Go test drive a big E class CDI ,or an Audi TDI.. then fix your Diesel.

I had a C 30 CDI AMG smoke me from a roll... (that was with the t 25 though, but he WALKED ME SO BAD , and later, i had a chipped Seat Leon TDI AWD (Audi/VW) smoke me too

You havent seen Diesel power yet my friend- those cars pull hard past 140 mph... (tractors with huge displacement dont count)

EDIT: the older PDI TDI setups from Audi used to twist..yes twist their axles-thats torque.



Someone cited me for capitalization.. sheesh.

 

[maximumbob]

I think you've missed a large part of what the DSM community Raph is. It's always been a try it first kind of community. He has realistic expectations, seems to have more than enough knowledge, has the financial resources and time, and most importantly probably truly enjoys working on this and other projects. I for one think it's a really interesting project and can't wait to see some results so that we can all learn something in the process.

 

[aero_sallee]

Well,think about it.

You seen those tractor pulls..in Holland they do that too..do you see the displacement on those engines? (not to mention weight and size?)

My point is,you cant beat High Pressure Direct Injection(1600 bar fuel pressure!) on HP per Litre displacement.

The Indirect Systems make barely 140-180 bar pressure (vs 1600!)

Theres no way you can swicht from an Indirect to Direct injection without major money..i cant imagine the cost.

I think its great that you want to do this...but leave the Diesel modding to the Modern setups that you can Chip Tune.


And Japanese Diesels dont make nearly Half the HP/Litre that the European (yes we can count the french..sigh..Twin Turbo FAP HDI) Diesels make.

Nissan and Mitsubishi use old Dinosaur Diesel technology.. barely getting 150 hp / no 300 torque..theyre using Euro Diesels in newer models

Toyota also doesnt make its own,niether does Honda (even though they claim they do.. wait the 1.7 makes no power )

I just want to save you from a dissapointment. Go test drive a big E class CDI ,or an Audi TDI.. then fix your Diesel.

I had a C 30 CDI AMG smoke me from a roll... (that was with the t 25 though, but he WALKED ME SO BAD , and later, i had a chipped Seat Leon TDI AWD (Audi/VW) smoke me too

You havent seen Diesel power yet my friend- those cars pull hard past 140 mph... (tractors with huge displacement dont count)

EDIT: the older PDI TDI setups from Audi used to twist..yes twist their axles-thats torque.



Someone cited me for capitalization.. sheesh.

Cummins 5.9. ~6000lb Ram 3500 dually. Low 11, poor cobra.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3281462414001956987&q=diesel+race

This is a 12v 5.9 cummins 172hp/ltr doesn't seem to shabby to me. Torque was calculated from hp/rpm since the dyno maxed at 1200ft lbs.
http://www.dieselperformancemotorsports.com/media/Tim1020sheet.wmv

Fastest diesel dragster in the world. Another 5.9 cummins. Stock pistons/rods/crank. 24v, P7100 injection pump. All mechanical pump.
http://cumminsracing.com/

None of those are direct injection or overhead cams.

 

[Defiant]

We're straying from the topic here, folks. Steer it back, or the winnowing starts.

 

[Raph]

CHICKSDIGBOOST- how did u know that the rvr was AWD?

The more i look at the trans off the 4d68 the more i realize it looks like an evo trans. very much like an evo. the only part i cant tell is the part where it would connect with the t-case, if the rvr truely is awd. Could u take a pic of the trans where the passanger side axle would connect to the trans.

Ive been following the build so far and am very excited to see how this turns out. I cant wait to see you prove all the non believers wrong. Good luck and hope all goes well with the house search. Keep us updated. Thanks A.J.

Believe it or not, i had a 1999 hyundai KDP santamo (knock down production) on the lift last week- its based off the 1990 to 94 spacewagon/rvr ..

So i installed a new timing belt , new clutch.. only to realise that this 1999 was a 6 bolt! WTF

i also belive in making firsts..(look at my ride- proving all the high compression na sayers wrong-im the only one here with that setup )

 

[Raph]

Cummins 5.9. ~6000lb Ram 3500 dually. Low 11, poor cobra.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3281462414001956987&q=diesel+race

This is a 12v 5.9 cummins 172hp/ltr doesn't seem to shabby to me. Torque was calculated from hp/rpm since the dyno maxed at 1200ft lbs.
http://www.dieselperformancemotorsports.com/media/Tim1020sheet.wmv

Fastest diesel dragster in the world. Another 5.9 cummins. Stock pistons/rods/crank. 24v, P7100 injection pump. All mechanical pump.
http://cumminsracing.com/

None of those are direct injection or overhead cams.

Thats excatley my point.. look at the displacement.. the diesels im talking about are 1.7 to 3.0 liters displacement,they run like champs..and all average way over 30 mpg.

Iim anything but a na sayer trying to put people off projects.

remember, the development that has taken place in the Directinjection segment during the last 10 years is scary.. imagine if gasoline engines developed at the same rate.

So back on topic i guess.

And im a fan of custom fabrication

 

[mujgy]

Jeez, look what I did bringing this thread back, Anyway, glad to hear that the project is just delayed, to bad that one house didn't work out, sounded nice. Good luck on finding a place so then you can get back to work on this swap.

And to Raph, check out the 4M41 Theres a mitsu DI diesel for you. Look nobodys saying that this swap is going to be some be all end all, its moreso a matter of getting good performance, fuel mileage and reliablity. And just to do some tinkering in the garage. I recieved the same responce from the guys at work when I told them I was working on droping a mitsu 4 banger diesel into my s10. They all said "why not drop in a 400 sbc and be done with it"? I simply shrugged and said "because I want to and because I can"

Im pursuing my project for different reasons then morphius however the spirit and intent are alike. With a wrench, hammer, and a torch anything is posible.


PS here are the manuals for the 4d56, 4M40, and 4M41

 

[Raph]

Jeez, look what I did bringing this thread back, Anyway, glad to hear that the project is just delayed, to bad that one house didn't work out, sounded nice. Good luck on finding a place so then you can get back to work on this swap.

And to Raph, check out the 4M41 Theres a mitsu DI diesel for you. Look nobodys saying that this swap is going to be some be all end all, its moreso a matter of getting good performance, fuel mileage and reliablity. And just to do some tinkering in the garage. I recieved the same responce from the guys at work when I told them I was working on droping a mitsu 4 banger diesel into my s10. They all said "why not drop in a 400 sbc and be done with it"? I simply shrugged and said "because I want to and because I can"

Im pursuing my project for different reasons then morphius however the spirit and intent are alike. With a wrench, hammer, and a torch anything is posible.


PS here are the manuals for the 4d56, 4M40, and 4M41

I never disputed the fact that mitsubishi had a DI diesel.. i just made clear that japanese turbo diesels dont make half the output per litre than what the euro conterparts do ..

I checked the dodge turbo diesel pickup stats.. 5.9 liters and soo little horspower(just under 50 hp per liter?? )- a tipical 3.0 "euro"diesel makes more output..

Well please keep this thread alive.

 

[aero_sallee]

I never disputed the fact that mitsubishi had a DI diesel.. i just made clear that japanese turbo diesels dont make half the output per litre than what the euro conterparts do ..

I checked the dodge turbo diesel pickup stats.. 5.9 liters and soo little horspower(just under 50 hp per liter?? )- a tipical 3.0 "euro"diesel makes more output..

Well please keep this thread alive.

Those 5.9 L cummins are made for towing, where torque is more beneficial than high horsepower and to last forever while towing. Due to the torque and long stroke they will make ~300 hp and over 600ft lbs depending on year. Heavily modified ones have been making around 1000whp and on stock internals. ~170 hp/l is nothing to sneeze at. Its not like the 5.9 is that much bigger than the taureg diesel anyway, and its missing 4 cylinders, a cam, and a bunch of valves. As far as you talking about the 1.7 to 3.0L German diesels, you did mention the taureg which is much larger than that.

No one is knocking your German diesels, but you are being extremely closed minded here.

 

[pneumo]

I never disputed the fact that mitsubishi had a DI diesel.. i just made clear that japanese turbo diesels dont make half the output per litre than what the euro conterparts do ..

I checked the dodge turbo diesel pickup stats.. 5.9 liters and soo little horspower(just under 50 hp per liter??) - a tipical 3.0 "euro"diesel makes more output.

Hopefully you're not just saying that a large displacement engine has lower specific output than a small displacement engine, right?

I don't think the OP is too concerned with what HAS been done. He seems to be more concerned with what COULD be done. What are the possibilities with a new combination of parts? This is where the real fun happens- when you think outside the box and do things differently, and for a different purpose.

edit: Here's an example of thinking outside the box. check out www.GasSavers.org/garage/view/207

That's my other car, a 90 Laser turbo. As you can see I'm getting unbelievable gas mileage out of a car that can do consistant mid 13's at the track on 91 octane. I keep tabs on that website because I need to talk with similar minded people. On that forum we help each other improve our fuel efficiency. We learn, experiment, and generally benefit from each others knowledge and experiences. The same thing happens on this website except the topic is different- here we make our cars faster in many different ways. I don't think I could've pushed my Laser to such high MPG (best of 41.6, 38.7mpg average) without their help. I'm sure if I posted threads about my fuel saving ideas here on Tuners it would've been met with doubters, naysayers, and resounding yawns. So I'm happy to see a topic like this thrive on Tuners.

There isn't a large community of diesel support here on Tuners, so we need to make the best of it. Raph, could you provide more info on Euro diesel technology? Links would be nice. Maybe we could learn a thing or two from studying Euro diesels? Care to share?

BTW there is a seperate section for Diesel discussions on GasSavers.

 

[Defiant]

Morphius, PM me when you get back to this project.

We don't need to pitch the horseshit about who's motor is bigger.

Closed until then.