420A Losing Power, Sputtering, P0300, P0301, P0304 CELs Need Help!

[Abob]

I've done some searching on here to try and find out what is going on with my car but I just can't seem to find anything similar.
My car is running like crap cruising down the road. It starts fine but when I start going it goes to crap. I pulled a few codes, p0300, p0301, p0304, and a couple evap ones. One was no flow and the other was small leak.

Anyway, it doesn't do it all the time. It will be fine for a few days or more, then go crappy for awhile. Back and forth like that. Sometimes it will do it when I start out, like the start of 2nd gear, then go away. Sometimes it won't go away for awhile. Other times it will do that when I'm cruising in 5th gear on the highway or no matter what gear or speed. It seems to loose power, and just run on 2 cylinders. Sputtering, spitting as well as the check engine light flashing at me.

I have changed plugs, wires, coil pack, and check the fuel filter ( its clean). I've been told of a few things have beendone to the car such as exhaust, header, cams.

 

[David9er]

I've done some searching on here to try and find out what is going on with my car but I just can't seem to find anything similar.
My car is running like crap cruising down the road. It starts fine but when I start going it goes to crap. I pulled a few codes, p0300, p0301, p0304, and a couple evap ones. One was no flow and the other was small leak.

Anyway, it doesn't do it all the time. It will be fine for a few days or more, then go crappy for awhile. Back and forth like that. Sometimes it will do it when I start out, like the start of 2nd gear, then go away. Sometimes it won't go away for awhile. Other times it will do that when I'm cruising in 5th gear on the highway or no matter what gear or speed. It seems to loose power, and just run on 2 cylinders. Sputtering, spitting as well as the check engine light flashing at me.

I have changed plugs, wires, coil pack, and check the fuel filter ( its clean). I've been told of a few things have beendone to the car such as exhaust, header, cams.

Those 3 code are universal to all cars that are newer than 96 and have OBD-II
P0300 is a random misfire
P0301 is a misfire in cylinder #1
P0304 is a misfire in cylinder #4
Since you have done the plugs, wires, and pack the next thing to check would be the injectors. the important thing to remember is that the misfires are isolated to #1 and #4 so you want check items that affect those cylinders individually so spark plugs and gap, wires, coil pack, injectors and O-rings and the head gasket [the gasket could be damaged at those cylinders so do a compression test]
BTW your profile doesn't state if you have a 420A or a non-turbo 4g63, if you have the latter, I have accidentally unplugged the harness from the injectors while working on the coil pack so it may be that simple.

 

[Abob]

Sorry, I believe it is the 420a. I just check the connectors to the injectors today and the all seem fine. I won't be able to compression check it until next weekend.

I did gain a new problem today. Its now missing at idle and it smells like its running rich. I also put around 40 miles on the car and lost a little under a 1/4 of a tank of gas.

I'm starting to think that I have an injector or two that is bad.

 

[zcox122]

2gs didn't come with a non turbo 4g63. OP check your coils your car has 2 coils one for cylinders 1 and 4 and another for 2 and 3. If your coil is dead you could be smelling unused gas still being dumped into the cylinders.

 

[96 GSX LOVE]

Check your injectors first thing since the check engine light is flashing it means its an internal issue. But since you said its been using a lot of gas could be an issue with the injector
pulse.

 

[We're on Boost]

Take a look at this.
I couldn't get stupid Image Shack to work on this picture, hopefully this is readable.
Anyway, missing on 1-4 or 2-3, usually the first guess is coil pack. But when this happened to my car (4g63 turbo), changing the coil pack made no difference - like on your car. The shop was baffled.
Later, at home, I got lucky, I found out that by pushing down on the connector that plugs on to the power transistor, I could make the problem go away - as long as I held on to the connector! So it was one of the female connectors in the plug that had gotten too loose and was giving a very intermittent connection on that one wire.

So on your car, apparently the 2g non-turbo doesn't have a separate power transistor like the 1g does. But, the connector that plugs in to the coil pack has 1 pin for 1-4 and another pin for 2-3. So it could be a problem in that plug/connector. Take a look at the upper diagram, there is a note with pointer that points to a pin called "cylinders 1 and 4". Could be an intermittent connection right there. That's my guess.
In the picture it looks like the male pins are on the coil pack, so the female parts would be in the plug. You would probably find a problem with the female connector in the plug that goes onto the 1-4 pin. On our car, we tweaked the female part to make it fit tighter.

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WOOHOO, finally re-figured out how to get a full resolution non-dumbed-down picture in here from ImageShack.

 

[Abob]

That actually helps a lot. I will have to grab my ohm meeter tomorrow and take a look at that. Even tho I replaced the coil pack I think the new one is bad as well.

I looked over the connector to the coil pack and everything turned out good with it. So my next step after I ohm the coil pack is I'm going to ohm the injectors. Does anyone know what is a good number for them to ohm at?

 

[We're on Boost]

Here's some injector check info. This is for 1997-1999 non-turbo 2 liter, as was the info for the coil pack.

That's really good that you have a meter. I always say, if you buy one of these cars, get a meter first, then get the car.

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[David9er]

If your coils check out, pull your fuel rail to see if the injectors are spraying [atomizing] properly. Again focus on #1 and #4, if they are not atomizing properly you can run a fuel system cleaner like seafoam or berrymans. Here is a link if you would like to get real fancy about it:
diy testing, cleaning, fuel, and injectors

 

[Abob]

Here's some injector check info. This is for 1997-1999 non-turbo 2 liter, as was the info for the coil pack.

That's really good that you have a meter. I always say, if you buy one of these cars, get a meter first, then get the car.

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I've learned that a meter is your best friend Lol.

I've ran some mystery oil through the car with not much change. As in it did mis as much as before.

 

[We're on Boost]

Yeah, a good multimeter is a wonderful thing. If all your ohm checks look good we can hopefully have some ideas what to try next.
Trying to measure something between 0.5 and 0.6 ohms is pretty hard even with a good meter though. But I think if you just get something close to 0 on that coil primary check it's probably a good sign.

 

[Abob]

OK so I ohmed the coil pack.
Cylinder 1-4 at plug .8. Across the terminals 13.85
Cylinder 2-3 at plug .7. Across the terminals 13.90
Checked injector 1 got 12.2. Its cold outside and the injector plugs are a pain in the rear. Lol

So from what I understand everything is checking out good. The only thing I have left to do is check the apart of the injectors. I've only done this one way and that was bench flow them. Is there another way I can do it since I don't have those tools anymore.

 

[Phantom DSM]

OK so I ohmed the coil pack.
Cylinder 1-4 at plug .8. Across the terminals 13.85
Cylinder 2-3 at plug .7. Across the terminals 13.90
Checked injector 1 got 12.2. Its cold outside and the injector plugs are a pain in the rear. Lol

So from what I understand everything is checking out good. The only thing I have left to do is check the apart of the injectors. I've only done this one way and that was bench flow them. Is there another way I can do it since I don't have those tools anymore.

From the diagrams posted above , at plug should be between .51-.61 and between 11.5-13.5 kohms, your results are a little bit out of spec in the range, its quite possible it coud still be that coil pack. Is there anyway you can get another used one to test with ? Most of the codes you have correlate to random misfires as stated above.
Check your spark plug gap to be between .039-.043 or .045" on NGK-BKR6E plugs.

Also can you list the Evap codes you got? the small leak code is usually attributed to leaky fuel caps, i have to replace them for service all the time on inspected vehicles.

 

[Abob]

I will have to run to the local junkyard and see what I can find or see of someone has a coil pack locally.

Spark plugs are NGK. bkr6egp With a .45 gap

I will have to run up to auto zone tomorrow and grab the codes again. I lost my paper Lol.

This car is starting to really bug me. I can't figure it out, shoot it drove fine all day today with out an issue. The sad part is I guarantee that it will run like crap tomorrow.

 

[Phantom DSM]

I will have to run to the local junkyard and see what I can find or see of someone has a coil pack locally.

Spark plugs are NGK. bkr6egp With a .45 gap

I will have to run up to auto zone tomorrow and grab the codes again. I lost my paper Lol.

This car is starting to really bug me. I can't figure it out, shoot it drove fine all day today with out an issue. The sad part is I guarantee that it will run like crap tomorrow.

The gp's are platinum i think, and the way its been running they might be fouled already. Once you get another coil to test with switch in NGK BKR6E-11 pep boys or napa have them. .045 gap. Oh and and let me know on the codes.

 

[Abob]

Hmm. So it should have just copper plugs in it? I just replaced what was in the car.

I will for sure let you know about the codes

 

[David9er]

While your at autozone compare your ohm readings to a the readings from a brand new coil off the shelf

 

[We're on Boost]

To me it sounds like your ohm readings are all good, even though you got numbers on the primaries that are a little higher than what it says in the book. Using a meter to measure resistance of anything that close to zero (less than 1 ohm) is a little tough, because of the contact resistance of the surface you are touching with the probes, even if you are using freshly sharpened needle type probes, even if you zero out your meter with both probes touching the same surface.
If you wanted to really get down on making an accurate ohm measurement on the primaries I could tell you how. You would need a flashlight battery, like a D cell, and your meter would have to be one that can measure amps. But since you have a situation that is highly intermittent and seems to work most of the time, it could be a little tough to track down what is going on.

The thing I keep thinking of is - what do you know about modifications made to the car by the previous owner? Have you ever looked at the wires going into the back of the ecu? If you have never seen your ecu, you might be surprised at what you would find if you looked at the wires going into it. If they have been hacked into by the previous owner making some mod, there could be some bad connections there, leading to intermittent behavior.

The wiring in my car was a mess when I bought it, and in fact even now 9 years later I am finally getting around to putting in a separate starter solenoid circuit that will totally bypass the ignition key and everything in the steering column, the alarm system, the starter relay, and the switch on the clutch pedal, just because those areas have given me so much trouble over the years. It will be turn key to run, push button to start.

Anyway I'm saying, you may have inherited some hacked wiring. Take a look behind your ecu. I could even look up in the book which ecu pins go to those 2 primary pins on the coil, and we may be able to test the ecu output somehow, in those 2 wires.

The problem could be actually inside the ecu. I bought a used ecu for my car from a reputable, even smart, and honest, ecu expert. It would intermittently throw a code for injector (OBD I code 41) which says "Harness and connector, Injector coil resistance". The problem was actually in the ecu. I sent the ecu back to him, he found a crack in a trace on the circuit board. He repaired the trace, and sent it back to me fixed.

 

[DSM1G90]

Platinums are horrible when around electricity since that metal is a very poor conductor of electrical current. - why copper has always been the best metal for any electrical application.

Why a lot uses platinums for two reasons: they last long and makes the user very lazy in spark plug maintenance. But, ever tried to pull plugs that have been in a head for almost 100K miles ? ... good luck in removing them.

 

[Blu92]

I see you checked the resistance of the #1 cylinder injector. Did you check the resistance of the others to compare? I had a misfire on my car that only started after the car fully warmed up and had been driven for awhile. The resistance I read on my bad injector changed from when it was cold to when it was hot. Replaced it and no more problems.

 

[Abob]

OK, so I got the evap codes. P0455 and p0442

I forgot to ohm a new coil pack, but I did find out I had a little autozone reward money to spend by tomorrow. So I went ahead and bought the new plugs. Put them in the car for the fun of it just to see what it would do on the 20 minute drive home. Well it actually ran a heck of a lot better than it has been. Granted it still stuttered a little, but no were near the way it has been.

I haven't had a chance to ohm the other 3 injectors yet. It has been cold out, and those plugs are a pain. I will check them out Sunday when I am able to use the shop on the farm as well as check the objectors them selves.

 

[We're on Boost]

I hope the shop has some heat in it. Weather.com says Sunday in Paris KY is supposed to be 30 deg high and 20 deg low!

Just thought I'd provide some cheer

Yeah, you know people including me complain a lot about their DSMs, but when it comes to taking the injector plugs off, the sorriest thing I've ever seen was on a German car, a VW. This car was only about 3 years old, and already the insulation on the wires going into the injector plug was so brittle that it would crack and fall off just from handling. Sheesh.

 

[Phantom DSM]

OK, so I got the evap codes. P0455 and p0442

I forgot to ohm a new coil pack, but I did find out I had a little autozone reward money to spend by tomorrow. So I went ahead and bought the new plugs. Put them in the car for the fun of it just to see what it would do on the 20 minute drive home. Well it actually ran a heck of a lot better than it has been. Granted it still stuttered a little, but no were near the way it has been.

I haven't had a chance to ohm the other 3 injectors yet. It has been cold out, and those plugs are a pain. I will check them out Sunday when I am able to use the shop on the farm as well as check the objectors them selves.

Glad to hear it is a little better. Ohm the injectors and let us know, Im hoping your fuel filter is good as well. Oh and the replacement coil pack when you can.
Thanks for getting the codes. 0442 is small and 0455 is large in EVAP leak. You could get lucky and replace the gas cap with an OEM cap, i usually get the codes cleared for cars i fix this way, reset the battery and drive, and ready to inspect. Now if it does not go away, you have to check charcoal canister hoses, even a small pinhole in vacuum purge valve can cause code to come up. Even by the rear of the car, smell for fuel vapor.
Now just to let you know, this not might resolve the sputtering issue, but wil help with emissions and gas mileage due to gas cap. See what happens

 

[Abob]

I hope the shop has some heat in it. Weather.com says Sunday in Paris KY is supposed to be 30 deg high and 20 deg low!

Just thought I'd provide some cheer

Yeah, you know people including me complain a lot about their DSMs, but when it comes to taking the injector plugs off, the sorriest thing I've ever seen was on a German car, a VW. This car was only about 3 years old, and already the insulation on the wires going into the injector plug was so brittle that it would crack and fall off just from handling. Sheesh.

Ive worked on cars in worse Lol. Yah its got a big wood burning stove in it as well as a diesel heater to start getting it warm until the wood burner takes over.
I've always had trouble with injector plugs, no matter what vehicle they are on. Lol

Phantom. Not a problem. I will look into the gas cap. Oh just thought of something. If I fill my tank with the hose on high I notice that my filler line leaks a small spot under my car. Could that have something to do with the evap codes? Oh and I never let my car get below 1/4 of a tank

 

[We're on Boost]

Well gee I guess the ecu for your car is in the engine compartment, which I didn't know.
It is called a PCM in most places in the manual.
Since it is right there where you can see it, you could look at the wires going into it to check for hacking pretty easily, without taking anything apart.

Looks like it has 2 connectors, 40 wires going to each one. They are labeled 106 and 107 in the manual.
It might be worthwhile to take the connectors off and look for corrosion or damage on the individual connectors inside. There could be corrosion, especially if they salt the roads there. The 2 wires to the coil are in 106. I think the wires to the injectors are in 107.
Here's the big picture, in case you don't already know where this thing is. I marked the good stuff in blue:

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