Lifter issue turns into a KNOCKING NIGHTMARE!!!

[97ClipseDSM]

Installed the TurboXS H-34 bov and Upper Intercooler piping today. Well, ive always had a lifter issue at certain rpms (during low oil pressure)..not on start up..it would always tick and was quite annoying from 2.6k-2.9k. Well, today after the BOV installation, took it for a test drive to see how the car runs with the new bov and if it eliminated the boost leak i had. It did, it pulled pretty hard, i didnt redline at all and shifted every 5k or so. This was the new motor i bought 2 months ago that only had 20k original miles on it. I compression tested the motor a couple weeks ago and got 184 181 182 182. Ok lets get to the point and what happened today. After the test drive, in the same rpm's that the lifter tick once was a pain and annoying, i started hearing a knock instead, and it got louder if i kept it holding in those rpms. Suddenly we saw some smoke coming out of the engine bay, drove back to my friends house and opened the hood and found the dipstick to have come out a little and causing the oil to spurt everywhere. So i got going home, and the knock was getting worse and worse..2 mins before i got to my house, it happened, it started knocking/grinding/power loss, i couldnt get past 20 MPh..and right before the turn to my block, it died, i started it back up & it did roughly but it would die again..so i put it in neutral and parked it. I checked the dipstick for metal..none. I dont know what wrong or whats going on. It didnt sound like the knock was coming from the bottom end but i dunno. How come a lifter tick suddenly changed into a loud knock, i dont know. If anyone has any ideas/suggestions..please let me know i will appreciate it..thanks

This could be a do or die situation, $7000 + later in repairs ever since march 04, and this just happened..i babied it ever since i got the new motor. What makes it worse is my last motor had a bottom end knock..and now this..what a bad experience

 

[97ClipseDSM]

bump..anyone?? Any help?

 

[Defiant]

I guess you must be new.

Do Not Bump Threads.

You never had lifter tick. Lifter tick, if present, can't be heard over 1500 RPM. You had a bad balance shaft bearing, rod bearing, or broken piston at first guesses.

Never drive a motor that's making a noise.

When you rebuild this one, you'll find out what you killed.

 

[97ClipseDSM]

Ummm..it was lifters ticking. This has been already talked about and found out my many dsm'ers who helped me. It was a tick, not a knock. But this time it was knocking, at 1500 RPM+ when under low oil pressure. And quite honetly, i didnt know, and im still confused for your remark about how lifters are not present past 1500K. That means many of the threads i read and people complained about hearing the lifters tick at 2.1k-2.3k or 2.4k-2.8k, and they solved that tick by adding lucas, your saying that it was there rods or balance shaft bearings that were "ticking" before??

I dunno but thanks for the help

 

[97ClipseDSM]

Ok started the car this morning and checked it out again. I started by checking the oil through the dipstick, it is healthy, no signs of metal at all. I than started the car, the car started perfectly, and idles perfectly. I then listened close to the noise and it sounds more of a clank than a knock. I listened even closer and it sounds as something is hitting the cam..in this case the lifter..when you rev the car with the spring you can hear the lifter making an aweful noise inside the head. So to my theory, i believe it is a cam being smacked around. It was too cold to actually pull the valve cover off but i did remove the oil cap () and tried to peek while i listened and the noise is definitely coming from the Head. I will have it checked out by a few DSM'ers i know or by a mechanic tommorow morning. A few guys that were with me today that have good ears, also pointed to the lifter smacking the cams, because thats what it sounds like. Which kind of brings to my conclusion, that those lifter ticks i was experiencing was something to worry about..when everyone told me not to. Im almost 100% certain the problem is the lifter.

 

[onegee]

My brother ran my 1.8 bone dry on oil. Did the same thing you're car did. Knocked like a mofo, started losing power, then shut off. FUBAR'd the crank and rods. That noise might be Mr. Rod knocking. But if you still have oil you could rule it out.

Do you have any oil leaks out of curiousity?

Hope for the best but be prepared for the worst. I really hope its not rod knock. After you pull off the valve cover, push on the rocker arms and there should be little movement. Obviously, if somethings loose and smacking your cam, it'll have quite a bit of play.

 

[BISHILVR]

i hate to even say this but it could be possibly crankwalking........?

 

[Defiant]

i hate to even say this but it could be possibly crankwalking........?

Not a chance.

It's also not "camshaft bearings" as there are none- the cams ride in the aluminum of the head and the caps.

I can't think of a situation for the valvetraing to be putting out any knock and the motor still running smoothly.

I'm still at balance shaft bearing.

 

[97ClipseDSM]

Not a chance.

It's also not "camshaft bearings" as there are none- the cams ride in the aluminum of the head and the caps.

I can't think of a situation for the valvetraing to be putting out any knock and the motor still running smoothly.

I'm still at balance shaft bearing.

Thats the thing that the car did not run smoothly when this happened, it wouldnt even go anywhere because the more i accelerated the worst the clanking/grinding got, but there was no "knock" when i was accelerating. Im sure we all know the car will not run without a broken cam..my prediction is still the Lifter/cam issue. To say my car is running smoothly is an understatement, all i said was it was idling pretty good, but with all that ticking/clanking noise i could hear from something smacking the cam..and when i revved it, it sounded like a broken lifter above or below the cam doing some beating. I know what a rod knock sounds like, if your not familiar, just 2 months ago my last motor had a "bottom end knock" and the bearings were toast. I pulled my last motor and saw what the problem was. This situation im in is totally different. The oil is full & very healthy, like i changed it yesterday, and even though i checked it through the dipstick, no metal shavings and no signs of metal. When my last motor had a bottom end knock, i immediately checked the oil and there was metal in there.

I will find out today, and im not worried one bit because i can tell a difference between a Rod Knock and something hitting the cam.

 

[Defiant]

Jumped timing?

 

[97ClipseDSM]

Jumped timing?

I wouldnt rule that out at all, but it idles kinda too good for it to be jumped timing. My dad originally told me that he believed it was jumped timing. I had my car towed to a mechanic shop yesterday. Im expecting the worst, because ive been through this many times before in the past 6 months or so. Im not ruling out that it could be a rod or something else. I just believe and im pretty experienced by now with these type of problems, thst its too loud at rev to be a rod, and at idle its a clank/tick. It sounds like a stuck lifter, like even almost something smacking the cam. I hope my cam is not broken in 2 but i hate to say it, id cry in joy if that was the case... . I have a replacement head i can use out of my old motor but i dont have a bottom end..and thats gonna really hurt if it turns out to be a rod/bearing or something.

Good luck to myself

 

[Logue]

shavings probly won't show up on your dipstick, they didn't on my motor. Even when you drian the oil it will probly look good. Then when you pull the oil pan and u will find a golden treasure of bearing's. I'm going to agree with defiant.

 

[trbotaln]

You might have a bad oil pump and then ended up spinning a rod bearing. Do you have the correct oil pressure?

 

[97ClipseDSM]

shavings probly won't show up on your dipstick, they didn't on my motor. Even when you drian the oil it will probly look good. Then when you pull the oil pan and u will find a golden treasure of bearing's. I'm going to agree with defiant.

??? um you got me totally lost. Draining the oil will not look good if its bearings failure..ive been through this so many times. My last motor, it was a very quiet knock and i checked the oil through the dipstick and found tons of metal in it. Draining the oil will most likely give alot of clues. Im more focused on pulling that head than any oil pan right now, cause the problem does not lie in the bottom end as far as im concerned. We seem to think, anything "knocking" is a rod..wrong. Im not a total idiot that i would say its a rod knock when the issue/location is totally different. At the worst, it could be a stuck valve and it sounds alot more like that than a rod. But like i said before, im not ruling anything out, these DSM's are shady sometimes. Thanks for the help

 

[97ClipseDSM]

You might have a bad oil pump and then ended up spinning a rod bearing. Do you have the correct oil pressure?

The oil pressure looked fine to me. As far as the lifter ticking present at certain rpms till the oil pressure raised, thats a different story. Im gonna make sure everything is througly checked before coming to a conclusion.

 

[97ClipseDSM]

Its the bottom end!!! I guess i was wrong! My mechanic just called me up to tell me the bad news. He believes i spun a rod bearing. Hes going to pull the oil pan and give me a call in a few hours to tell me what he finds. He also told me he believes i was sent a bad motor to begin with and theres no way it has 20k miles on it. I smell lawsuit..i do have a 6 month warranty with the company i bought it from but i just discovered they have been revoked from the better business bureau due to 200 complaints in the last 6 months, and most of them have been unanswered..for selling defective parts, false advertising, and warranty issues. Even if i could do something about my warranty, it would be kind of pointless if i have a mechanic shop pull the motor out, because i will end up paying for the labor and shipping it back to them. So thats like $1500 right there that will be wasted. I dunno what im gonna do now..i need some suggestions. I do have a fresh rebuilt head with 3k from my old motor as my backup head..but i will still need a new bottom end regardless, or rebuilt this one. Any suggestions what i should do about this situation?

 

[97ClipseDSM]

Update: #3 Cylinder spun a rod. Need a new bottom end. Im still under warranty so i should be recieving another motor from the company. My mechanic talked to the company and explained the situation and the supervisor agreed to send another motor. It still sux cause ill have to pay labor $$$ to get it installed, but either way its better than spending more $$$ on a rebuilt bottom end.

 

[babell2]

I say if the company sends a new motor. Sell it!!! take the money from it and buy a 2.4 stroker crank with new rods and build one that you know the history of. Now you have a known engine status and a beast on top of that.

 

[97ClipseDSM]

I say if the company sends a new motor. Sell it!!! take the money from it and buy a 2.4 stroker crank with new rods and build one that you know the history of. Now you have a known engine status and a beast on top of that.

Sounds like a plan..i didnt think of that but ill give it a thought.

Thanks for the suggestion

 

[Defiant]

Its the bottom end!!! I guess i was wrong!

Still sorry to hear it. :thumbdown

 

[Vandy4g63]

help everyone else out and post the company...

good luck man

 

[onegee]

Sucks. Same exact symptoms my old car had before it spun a rod. In these situations, I HATE being correct.

Keep us updated on the replacement motor.

pz

 

[97ClipseDSM]

Still sorry to hear it. :thumbdown

Thanks for yur help defiant, 9/10 times usually yur right. Yeah im really pissed this happened again in less than 2 months, and ive babied this motor like a grandma. I dunno when this nightmare with this car will end, i just think i started off on the wrong foot, and then spend all that $7000+ to get it the way i want, and when it almost did, the most important thing (the motor) went into flames again. Ill see if my next motor can hold up, my mechanic told me when he recieves the motor he is gonna open up the oil pan, and the head, and check throughly its condition, and he will let me know his honest oppinion on what i should do, wether install that motor, or upgrade the rods, pistons, etc..if he believes that any of these are the weak point in the motor. I appreciate his help, hes helped me alot and he has seen me struggle with my car for so long, thats why he is gonna make sure my car runs the way it should.


The company is located in Wisconsin. They go by a few different names, but one of them is Mid City. So yeah, be cautious buying anything from them. Not saying there a complete Rip off, but the symptoms of my motor show that i was lied to about miles and condition.

 

[BISHILVR]

your symptoms were crank/bottom end related

 

[HondaStalker]

I don't know what your trying to say is the noise, but if it sounds like the whole motor is off balance then It quite possibly could be your timing belt is LOOSE.


But on my laser, I had a real bad lifter tick when cold, and if I drove it cold it would tick real loud as if it was a knock,but deff. wasn't a knock and didn't have good power,but when the car would get all the way to operating temp it would be fine, I then had my hg fixed, and only drove it a few times with a shitty tps causing rough idle, but so far the lifters sound pretty good.