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Lets talk Difs.

Posted by D's GS-T, Apr 26, 2011

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  1. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Proven Member

    4,426
    997
    Joined Aug 26, 2003
    Mendota, Illinois
    Leon, just get a diff from ebay. $175 shipped. All the rest of you, you are making a mountain out of a molehill. It's easy.

    1. Buy an evo lsd for $175 on ebay
    2. Install in your existing rear end housing, being sure to follow good gear setup practices.
    3. Buy a set of evo inner cups from ebay for $75. They are identical l/r, and longer than a non-lsd rear cup.
    4. Install evo cups on your LSD rear axles
    5. Profit.
    This is the exact process I used on my talon.
    I don't understand the need for 10 pages of back and forth about what works and what doesn't.

    Now if you are really hard up, well equipped with a machine shop, and willing to use your grey matter, you can make a front axle cup work...

    Finally the guy wanting to get the DSS stage 5's. ehh. save your money. Them things are a half assed POS. Just find a decent set of 4bolt axles and cups. If you are super bonering about the dss axles, it's simple all you need is a dsm axle with an evo outer cup. They should be able to do that.
     

    Showcar Build 5K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon N/T
    9.805 @ 144.00 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
    2gjlc likes this.
  2. GRNDSM

    GRNDSM Moderator

    1,956
    86
    Joined May 16, 2002
    Chelmsford, Massachusetts
    What $175 eBay diffs are you talking about?

    But... this is a bit more complicated than what you say, I am going to adapt it to my Summit. Which has rear end unlike anything else in Mitsubishi family :(. So I was going to adapt EVO8/9 rear diff as is!
     

    Autocross Build 4K  22

    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.9 @ 103 · 2G DSM

    Street Build 3K  0

    93 Eagle Summit AWD
    11.74 @ 118 · 4G63t Swapped

    2K  0

    1994 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.123 @ 138.060 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  3. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Proven Member

    4,426
    997
    Joined Aug 26, 2003
    Mendota, Illinois
    Ahh forgot you are playing with that summit. Yeah your on your own on that deal. But anyway, they were like $175 when I got mine. Just a little more right now. ebay.JPG
     

    Showcar Build 5K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon N/T
    9.805 @ 144.00 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  4. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Proven Member

    4,426
    997
    Joined Aug 26, 2003
    Mendota, Illinois
    Sorry, cups are gone now. Figured I should have spares. Maybe they will have more soon?

    I should buy a spare diff too.
     

    Showcar Build 5K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon N/T
    9.805 @ 144.00 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  5. GRNDSM

    GRNDSM Moderator

    1,956
    86
    Joined May 16, 2002
    Chelmsford, Massachusetts
    I snatched those cups ;)

    It isn’t easy to keep track of my projects :)
     

    Autocross Build 4K  22

    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.9 @ 103 · 2G DSM

    Street Build 3K  0

    93 Eagle Summit AWD
    11.74 @ 118 · 4G63t Swapped

    2K  0

    1994 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.123 @ 138.060 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  6. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Proven Member

    4,426
    997
    Joined Aug 26, 2003
    Mendota, Illinois
    Hmm I got a set too. Hopefully we both get them. Some day all of mine will be for sale, I'm eventually going to do a 3/s rear. Got all the stuff for it, but I quit breaking sh** when I went back to a 4 spider CD.

    What does your summit axles look like? I have a cup that may help you.
     

    Showcar Build 5K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon N/T
    9.805 @ 144.00 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  7. GRNDSM

    GRNDSM Moderator

    1,956
    86
    Joined May 16, 2002
    Chelmsford, Massachusetts
    Summit rear end is using a flange by the diff. The actual spline size is equivalent to one that came on DSM 3 bolt rear end. Turbo RVRs came with larger cups and axles (DSM 4 bolt sizes).
     

    Attached Files:

    Autocross Build 4K  22

    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.9 @ 103 · 2G DSM

    Street Build 3K  0

    93 Eagle Summit AWD
    11.74 @ 118 · 4G63t Swapped

    2K  0

    1994 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.123 @ 138.060 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  8. gsxitement

    gsxitement Proven Member

    638
    438
    Joined Dec 9, 2002
    staten island, New York
    I bought an Evo III center section without a ring gear for 150 on eBay and also bought evoIII inner cups off eBay for 50 bucks. Both came from Malaysia. IMG_20171026_075134060.jpg IMG_20171102_085145194.jpg
     

    1K  9

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    11.930 @ 119.000 · 2G DSM
    Loading...
    Black95TSIawd likes this.
  9. ACM

    ACM Proven Member

    678
    55
    Joined Dec 11, 2002
    Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts
    Non-LSD cups do lock into place when used with an Evo 8 LSD in a 2g housing - the short LSD cup does not lock into place. I do not make much torque, but I have enough grip to have broken several axle shafts over the years running ProSolo events (usually at the inboard spline root), but the only cup that ever got damaged was when I accidentally used a short LSD cup - the damage shown in twicks69's image is identical to the damage I had when using the short LSD cup, except mine only lasted 2 ProSolos before failing.

    I sent dimensions of the non-LSD cups to my first rear LSD supplier (whose name fails me right now), they compared them to the Evo cups they sold and they were externally identical - certainly to within a millimetre. The non-LSD cups I used were original to the car, it came with a non-LSD rear from the factory.

    Edit - Kaaz was my LSD supplier.
     
  10. GRNDSM

    GRNDSM Moderator

    1,956
    86
    Joined May 16, 2002
    Chelmsford, Massachusetts

    Autocross Build 4K  22

    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.9 @ 103 · 2G DSM

    Street Build 3K  0

    93 Eagle Summit AWD
    11.74 @ 118 · 4G63t Swapped

    2K  0

    1994 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.123 @ 138.060 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  11. ACM

    ACM Proven Member

    678
    55
    Joined Dec 11, 2002
    Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts
    Yes I did read that. The non-LSD cups in my diff snap in just as they did in the original non-LSD - the only way to remove them is with a pry bar. It is quite difficult to tell the difference between a non-LSD cup and an LSD short cup, until you have them sitting next to each other, there's only a very small difference.
     
    Strm Trpr likes this.
  12. Scott McIntyre

    Scott McIntyre DSM Wiseman

    287
    38
    Joined Mar 15, 2002
    Halifax, NS, Canada
    Here's my setup.... DSS axles, EVO 8 inner cups, and EVO 8 diff in 2G housing.

    image406.jpg image409.jpg
     

    2K  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
    greengoblin and gsxitement like this.
  13. GRNDSM

    GRNDSM Moderator

    1,956
    86
    Joined May 16, 2002
    Chelmsford, Massachusetts
    Scott, could please measure your EVO8 cup splines, where they enter the diff?
     

    Autocross Build 4K  22

    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.9 @ 103 · 2G DSM

    Street Build 3K  0

    93 Eagle Summit AWD
    11.74 @ 118 · 4G63t Swapped

    2K  0

    1994 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.123 @ 138.060 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  14. Scott McIntyre

    Scott McIntyre DSM Wiseman

    287
    38
    Joined Mar 15, 2002
    Halifax, NS, Canada
    Unfortunately I cannot at this time as they're installed on the car.
     

    2K  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  15. Boomdeeze

    Boomdeeze Proven Member

    1,627
    270
    Joined Jul 5, 2009
    Independence, Minnesota
    Can I use the Evo 3 LSD rear in an auto rear end?
     

    Street Build 4K  1

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    10.793 @ 128.98 · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  16. Black95TSIawd

    Black95TSIawd Proven Member

    1,672
    295
    Joined Jan 28, 2003
    Dirty, New Jersey

    I don't think that Tim is saying they don't fit, as they obviously still click into place. (The Cups.) More like there is less surface area of contact with the cup and the diff. However, we all don't make the same tq/hp as Tim so most might be ok.

    Autocrosser's don't know how to launch AWD cars for some reason. I've seen more AWD issues at Prosolo's than I've seen at the dragstrip and I've only attended one ProSolo.
     

    5K  8

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    184.4 whp · 251.0 lb/ft · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  17. GRNDSM

    GRNDSM Moderator

    1,956
    86
    Joined May 16, 2002
    Chelmsford, Massachusetts
    Guys, I just got a pair of those EVO3 axle cups from Malaysia. As Charles has claimed and Tim contested, EVO3 cups appear to be IDENTICAL to non-LSD axles cup!

    For non-LSD cup, I used my Summit non-LSD cup and I am assuming that it is has the same protrusion into the diff as DSM non-LSD axle. Can someone with DSM non-LSD “4 bolt axle” please confirm it for me (57.30mm)
     

    Attached Files:

    Autocross Build 4K  22

    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.9 @ 103 · 2G DSM

    Street Build 3K  0

    93 Eagle Summit AWD
    11.74 @ 118 · 4G63t Swapped

    2K  0

    1994 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.123 @ 138.060 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  18. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Proven Member

    4,426
    997
    Joined Aug 26, 2003
    Mendota, Illinois
    I know this is 6 years late, but to prevent misinformation, the Torsen in the SCE 3kgt center diff is actually 40/60, with the ability to go from 20/80 to 65/35 iirc. The difference is that it is not a normal Torsen, it is a type 3 planetary. That diff is actually an OEM Toyota part, from like 05+ 4runner or something.

    The Quaife center that fits our cars should only be 50/50, but I swear I rear somewhere official like that it isn't, and has a rear bias.

    Lastly, on diffs like the Cusco tarmac 35/65, the input and output shafts spin the same rpm unless there is wheel spin/mismatched tires - meaning that you can in fact run the viscous coupler while running maintaining a 35/65 power split. All the vcu does is try to enforce the front and rear to run at the same speed. In fact if it did happen to lock up it would simply enforce the 35/65 that is provided by the differential, even though the end that was spinning might not use up all the available torque. I can't comment on what odd handling it may impart though.

    The Cusco 35/65 is a planetary differential, and operates on the same principles as the 3kgt center diff, although it is a different design.

    I know this may seem counter-intuitive, but it's correct. I've been looking at this for a while - reading papers - making drawings and models - playing with real parts. It's true. 40/60 torsen, and same speed input/output. I really truly wish we could have a t3 torsen style diff. I think it would be a major help for us guys that like to play in a straight line.
     

    Showcar Build 5K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon N/T
    9.805 @ 144.00 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  19. Brembo

    Brembo Proven Member

    324
    63
    Joined Aug 17, 2014
    Clifton, New Jersey
    I just bought rear diff and it has some funny paper on the plates. Anyone ever seen that? I never did as I don't have much experience with differentials. Should I open it? Any info is helpful.
     

    Attached Files:

    Street Build 2K  3

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  20. ViciousLord

    ViciousLord Proven Member

    394
    58
    Joined Jul 27, 2005
    Orlando, Florida
    just ordered the last set of axle cups on ebay.
     

    Street Build 623  1

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  21. Brembo

    Brembo Proven Member

    324
    63
    Joined Aug 17, 2014
    Clifton, New Jersey
    Alrighty. I hate this. I always have to go over someone else's work. It looks like someone made shim. If anyone has had these things apart maybe you can shade some light over here.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018

    Street Build 2K  3

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  22. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Proven Member

    4,426
    997
    Joined Aug 26, 2003
    Mendota, Illinois
    Yeah home made shim to preload the clutches a bit. I did similar to mine. I put the Belleville springs in a press and tweaked them for a bit more "cone"
     

    Showcar Build 5K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon N/T
    9.805 @ 144.00 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  23. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Proven Member

    4,426
    997
    Joined Aug 26, 2003
    Mendota, Illinois
    They were essentially trying to tune the initial lockup.
     

    Showcar Build 5K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon N/T
    9.805 @ 144.00 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  24. Brembo

    Brembo Proven Member

    324
    63
    Joined Aug 17, 2014
    Clifton, New Jersey
    You think I should open it up and remeasure the clutch discs? Take the shim out of leave it in? I would think if you need a shim then the clutches are worn out. Correct me if I am wrong.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018

    Street Build 2K  3

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  25. Brembo

    Brembo Proven Member

    324
    63
    Joined Aug 17, 2014
    Clifton, New Jersey
    Clutch disk all the way on top measures 1.58 and next in line 1.68. Anyone knows service limit?
     

    Attached Files:

    Street Build 2K  3

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...

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