knock/slapping @ the head, heeeelp please.

[campos_racing]

Okay guys so after finally assembling the car after a year, i have a weird knock at the head, but, its only at about 800rpm or so that it does that. I would figure if it were a bent valve etc. the noise would not go away. Though it might be the lifters? If I am at about 3-5k rpm you can hear the cam real loud as if maybe the lifters were not working. Im out of suggestions and searched several threads and videos on youtube but nothing similar. I will try and get a video tomorrow since its my off, but though that somebody might have had this problem. Thanks

 

[delta448]

at about 3-5k rpm you can hear the cam real loud

Can you elaborate on this?

How's your oil pressure at idle?

 

[campos_racing]

Can you elaborate on this?

How's your oil pressure at idle?

Basically you can hear the sounds of the cam really loud, like the circles its giving.

I have a stock oil gauge and it was pretty low, just below the line of normal.

 

[delta448]

What oil, how old is it, and did you prime the engine before startup since it sat so long?
So far it sounds like you have a couple of lifters that are sticky or otherwise not able to set the lash yet. Let the engine idle till warm and then slowly throttle to 3k, if you still hear it, then you may need to pull the valve cover and inspect.

 

[campos_racing]

What oil, how old is it, and did you prime the engine before startup since it sat so long?
So far it sounds like you have a couple of lifters that are sticky or otherwise not able to set the lash yet. Let the engine idle till warm and then slowly throttle to 3k, if you still hear it, then you may need to pull the valve cover and inspect.

technically after 1k the slap/knock is gone, but if you WOT at about 4k you can hear the cams, as if they were reving at 17k.

Oil, well I didnt put it in, see I was way full of work and decided to hire a tech to assemble back the head and timing. Then the noise came in. I have adjusted.the.timing belt/marks about 3 times and nothing. Do you think it might need an oil with more viscosity?

I will try to record it tomorrow so you can here it and make things easier. The lifters im guessing are the originals and were sat for a year since I was busy at work. Maybe its time for some revised hlas!

 

[95eclispe]

sounds to me like a bad lifter. I just had this problem as well. At first at idle it would be a low knocking then would go away after 1300rpms but came back and low rpms. Eventually it started to get louder at high idle and the tapping got faster literally sounded like the cams were hitting my valve cover. I suspected a sticky lifter as well but it turned out my lifter was no good. I had a spare head that i bought from a part and through it on which solved my problem.

 

[campos_racing]

Exactly, it sounds like something is hitting the valve cover, thats why im leaning to a bad lifter or dirty lifters.

I have the video on my phone already, I thought could upload thru it, but it says i need to connect to a wifi network so that sucks.

UPDATE

I have taken the cam caps off and the lifters are stuck and you cant even compress them one bit. I have bled them but I think I should change them out know all the work this is gonna take.

 

[95eclispe]

Exactly, it sounds like something is hitting the valve cover, thats why im leaning to a bad lifter or dirty lifters.

I have the video on my phone already, I thought could upload thru it, but it says i need to connect to a wifi network so that sucks.

UPDATE

I have taken the cam caps off and the lifters are stuck and you cant even compress them one bit. I have bled them but I think I should change them out know all the work this is gonna take.

ok so you can either replace the lifters and valves or you can just try to get a used head off of here,Craigslist, someone you know or a parts yard.

 

[delta448]

Replace the lifters if there's no difference after you change the oil. Something heavier, like 20w40 perhaps. You don't need new valves or a new head.

 

[campos_racing]

Well my head is pretty much new. I've put about 100 miles or less on it. For sure I do know that the lifters are still the original ones. I will try to clean them and see if that works!?

 

[StarFawkes]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu60ExxQjlg]Cylinder Head 107 - 4G63 HLA Lifter Tech - YouTube[/ame]

 

[bigbird94]

This^^^ I would reccomend you watch a few of jafromobiles videos on cylinder heads. You can find 3g lifters from almost any vendor on this site., Ive had good luck with the topline brand.

 

[Junfan]

I would recommend to get 3g lifters as others have said. There is a mitsu lifter tool that they make. It allows you to compress the springs, remove the rocker then pull the lifter out. I have done this now twice and have the tool. Makes a lifter job about a 90 minutes affair.

 

[campos_racing]

Thanks guys, I was looking to get them with my next paycheck, what brand is good? I saw some topline on ebay for $96 and ITM for $119. I will try to clean my original ones first though, since I have nothing to do. If it goes away I rather waste the money in getting it back on the road first but would get the 3g lifters later on. I still need plates, inspection, & insuarance on this car, so the fast I can get it on the road the better.

 

[delta448]

Use diesel fuel to clean them.

If they need replaced, the Topline revised versions are popular. Personally, I'd stick to a genuine Mitsu part.

 

[campos_racing]

I finally got the video up, dont mind the broken valve cover, its in the works, and my idle, yea I know, for some reason it does that when its cold. Its not finished though so I'm still working on it. Let me know what you guys think.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY-m3lO8G70&feature=youtube_gdata_player]dsm head noise - YouTube[/ame]

 

[campos_racing]

Any suggestions guys?

 

[kidtsi]

Sounds like a clogged lifter, ill try to clean them with diesel fuel, leave them soaked for a while and try them out, but if it was me I would just upgrade to 3g lifters "topline" it will be better in the long wrong not having more probabilities of phantom knock. But thats a whole difference story when you start tuning. Always focus on maintance first.

 

[campos_racing]

Sounds like a clogged lifter, ill try to clean them with diesel fuel, leave them soaked for a while and try them out, but if it was me I would just upgrade to 3g lifters "topline" it will be better in the long wrong not having more probabilities of phantom knock. But thats a whole difference story when you start tuning. Always focus on maintance first.

Thanks kevin, I'm gonna take them off and clean them today, but I'm not saying hopefully it will go away for good but if atleast it gives me a window of 2 months maybe, then its good by my book. By then its already back on road, hopefully. Since I still need some other tweaks here and there I could spend the $$ on the plates.

 

[-Boosty-]

It's hard to hear over your exhaust, but like everyone else said sounds like lifters. I had my engine fully rebuilt the only thing I didn't replace was the lifters. Few hundred miles and I had some tick. I had them replaced with revised lifters and they still ticked until I parked it for the winter. I was told it will take some time for them to stop ticking a few hundred miles or so. I was also told not to worry too much about it, that its common and as long as im not floggin the piss out of it that they shouldnt be to much of an issue. Just annoying. Keep us posted.

 

[campos_racing]

Well today I took them off and cleaned them. The first one on the intake side and cam gear side was pretty clogged. When I tried putting the paper clip thru the hole it wouldnt let me and after a couple taps I was able to get it lose. So I cleaned them with diesel as suggested and put them back on after dry. Now you can hear them ticking, but first at cold start the loud knock was gone, until it warmed up the loud knocking came back. Do you guys suggest maybe its blown? Or why does it keep clogging? Maybe I need some thicker oil? Thanks for the help guys.

 

[kidtsi]

Well I cant suggest other thing, its hard to tell the sound from the video, I have time right now if you need help, we are here to help.

 

[campos_racing]

Well I cant suggest other thing, its hard to tell the sound from the video, I have time right now if you need help, we are here to help.

Im at work, though I have off tomorrow, anytime feel free to pm me if you have time. I could really use the help. Lol seems you probably know the 4g63's secrets!

I cant imagine something else wrong with it.

Took it for a drive today but the knock did not go away. I guess I will have to wait to buy the 3g lifters. Mean while I can fix that exhaust leak.

I will try to clean them with carb cleaner also and see what happens.

 

[campos_racing]

hey guys, well instead of opening another thread I figured I would update this one. Good news is I replaced the lifters with 3g lifters, bad news is the knock is still there. What would you guys suggest it is then?

I took the car like this to work to swap out the lifters at work. On my way back my ac belt snapped and and it tear apart my balance shaft belt, and my timing belt snapped, only the exhaust cam moved, but I am gonna replace it tomorrow morning and see if nothing went bad. Other than that I could not think of any other thing causing this knock. Also my oil pressure was pretty low, so could this be my main bearings?

I have never heard an oil pump make noise when it no longer works so I wouldn't know about that. I am gonna replace the balance shaft belt tomorrow, spin the motor by hand, if all is good, I am gonna start it and see if I can find the problem. If not I will just take out the whole engine and take apart to see whats going on. Thanks for any help.

 

[DSM1491]

Balance shaft delete kit!!! Get it then u wont have to deal with timing for the balance shaft. U dont need them. Makes it so much easier We just finished doing my friends timing and it had skipped a tooth after we finished so we had to redo it. Such a pain to do. You should change the oil and when you change it check if you have any metal shavings. Take off the oil pan also check in there. Might have spun a rod. Check the rods to see if they have any play and check the crank also. I had that problem also but it was crankwalk on my 7 bolt. Crank moved side to side :'(