Just a heads up on NGK Vs Bosch Platinum Plus

[TrevorS]

I'm not pretending to know which plug is better for any given setup, but I am convinced as to which is better in my situation. Please understand my purpose is not to knock the NGK, but only to provide balance to what appears to me a one-sided discussion !

I've been running Bosch Platinum Plus for the past year (previously my car was dead for several months thanks to a burned up ECU). I've been strongly advised to switch to NGK copper, and so I did that Friday. Here is my result for my car. I make no claim regarding anyone else's Eclipse. So please don't feel that in any way I'm attacking anyone else's personal choice of spark plug. However, it's clear to me, this isn't a "one size fits all" situation . My car is a 1990 GSX with 125K miles.

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I definitely agree the NGK BPR6ES plugs (.028 gap) run differently from the Bosch Platimum Plus 4018 (pregapped), which is especially interesting since I was running that same NGK before my ECU burned up December 2007. I swapped out the plugs and leads at that time wondering if something there was preventing the car from starting -- obviously it wasn't ! My purchase of the Bosch instead of NGK was just curiosity (platinum being supposedly longer life).

However, after six miles with the brand new NGKs installed, I yanked them, put the Bosch back in, and took the car out again on the same run. Net result, there's no way I'll return to the NGK plugs. My idle speed dropped, throttle sensitivity dropped, willingness to spool dropped, an overall sense of sluggishness and lethargy settled on the car like a lead blanket after my lively experience of the Bosch. When driving with the Bosch, I keep having to let back off the throttle a little because the car seems to want to go. With the NGK, the car definitely doesn't go any faster unless I give it more throttle (in comparison, it's like having underinflated tires).

Now, my Eclipse is a 125K 1990 GSX with stock injectors, turbo, MAF, FP, FPR, and ECU. Maybe for some cars and configurations the NGK's work better, but unless some problem develops with the Bosch, I'm satisfied the Platinum Plus are a huge upgrade over the NGK for sheer driving enjoyment.

Photo of the NGK after 6 miles:

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Photo of the Bosch after 2K miles:

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[TrevorS]

After rereading this thread in the morning now I realize that you are a troll.

Don't feed the trolls.

Yeppers, the ultimate way to support your religion is to deny anything that could result in questioning.

Two things:

1) It's apparent looking at the photos in the first post that of the eight plugs, only three exhibit black on their tips -- the others look perfectly normal. Interestingly enough, those three are also accumulating a tan crust. So, what would be suggestive regarding eight plugs from the same high mileage engine where the only three to have visible tip contamination are also the only ones that are apparently exhibiting detonation?

Simple, the tip crusting is holding heat and under the right conditions can cause detonation, just like glow plugs in a diesel.

The reason the Bosch Platinum Plus are not evincing that problem is that they are burning themselves clean. In the process of which, they are also achieving a more complete fuel burn (larger gap) resulting in better engine behavior. A much younger engine would not have the fouling problem with the NGK plugs and so detonation would not be an issue.

2) I just measured my gas mileage for the tank I got Friday before installing the NGK plugs. It was 26.0 mpg (12.2gal) and that includes a few boosts. The previous calculation two weeks before was 25.0 mpg (12.5gal) also including a few boosts. (Absolutely no highway miles.)

There's nothing wrong with my engine (outside of having 125K miles on it), and it definitely runs better with the Bosch Platinum Plus plugs than with the NGK copper.

 

[dsmfa9nutter]

It's ok, use the platinums. We'll remember it when you come back and post a "my engine blew up, why???" thread the day after you turn the boost above stock levels.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

You can send me your NGK's... I don't have a problem running them.

 

[My1GLaser]

The reason why you're Bosch's are burning cleaner is because they're a protruding-tip plug. And the NGK's are recessed. Don't you think Mitsu chose that for a reason? Protruding-tip plugs burn well and clean, too. But under more boost and added cylinder-pressure, they'll knock like the Jehovah Witness at your door. That is a fact.

That is so true that I switched to non-projected NGKs last year after a trial run at the track. I only run BR7ES now, and I am less prone to knock.

I was getting a full 3* timing retard during some test & tune runs while running the BPR7ES. All I did was switch to the non-projected plugs and the knock went away completely. I have 9:1 CR and am running 20-21* timing & 28-30psi on pump gas, so I am definitely pushing the limits of 93 pump and the non-projected plugs give me more room.

 

[brainlessher0]

Im glad they didnt lock this thread, I now know the true reason NGK plugs out perform Bosch on boosted vehicles

 

[Defiant]

However, after six miles with the brand new NGKs installed, I yanked them, put the Bosch back in, and took the car out again on the same run. Net result, there's no way I'll return to the NGK plugs. My idle speed dropped, throttle sensitivity dropped, willingness to spool dropped, an overall sense of sluggishness and lethargy settled on the car like a lead blanket after my lively experience of the Bosch.

Are you aware that the DSM ECU (as with virtually all modern cars) is adaptive? It takes about two weeks for it to optimize itself to any changes in tuning. This is how modern cars get a hundred-thousand miles out of spark plugs.

Your car is used to running the improper Plats. Run the NGKs for a month and let it get back to where it's supposed to be.

This is not a topic of debate. The debate was solved when Platinum plugs were first introduced, and when they destroyed many DSM turbochargers.

Good luck with your errant decision.

 

[cheap90gsx]

So would this same argument be true for a similar application? such as basic supercharged and turbo applications? And the reason the ngk plug is preferred is the high heat high pressure conditions of a turbo or high compression engine?

 

[MrBoxx]

Heat and pressure do play a part, however, this isn't to say that platinum plugs aren't recommended for ALL turbocharged cars. See my example above, where most European cars use a very powerful ignition system, which requires the use of a platinum (or harder) electrode to resist melting. So, in the case of an Audi turbo car, or a BMW turbo car, I'm sure that nothing BUT a platinum plug HAS to be used, for fear of melting the electrode.

The closest analogy I can come up with for matching the spark plug to the ignition system/car is the use of three different grades of fuel for cars that weren't designed with it in mind. Our cars (turbocharged versions) require the use of premium gas. That's what the fuel system, and thusly the ECU's fuel/timing maps were designed around. You wouldn't run regular gas in them, for fear of throwing off the fuel maps and knocking. However, in cars that were designed to run on regular gas and not premium, switching to premium really doesn't have any positive effect. In some cases, the excess knock retard powers of the higher octane can actually decrease performance in these cars because they weren't designed to use a high octane gas. So you have to match the part to what the car was designed for.

In the turbocharged DSM's case, it was designed for a copper plug. That just so happens to be made by NGK.

 

[chanley talon]

Just to let you know. I have tried alot of plugs and my favorite and i swear by it is the Champion r9yc copper spark plugs. These plugs out preform anything i have used even the NGK Copper. You don't have to agree with me but if you have not tried them you should.

 

[bmoha2]

I tried this way back in the day. I had the platnium plugs in for maybe 3 months. Running 17 psi at that time. I pulled them just to see how they were doing. Didn't really notice any performance differences. To my surprise the electrode, the platnium part, was visibly thinner and smaller than when new. The sharp edges were rounded. I don't know if it's because of the different properties of platnium vs copper for thermal dynamics but I'd have to say my car was eating them. That was the last set of platnium plugs I ran. I don't think( again I said think not based on scientific data) platnium like boost. I have no problems putting platnium plugs in any of my other NA cars

 

[NYCRedlineTalon]

I would never ever let bosch plugs come within 20 ft of my engine bay.

That is crazy what you are experiencing.

same here, every time i used Bosch, in my 90 gsx i had issues but i didnt realize it was the plugs until it was too late. No Bosch for me

 

[ktgurl87]

We put only the NGKs in my husband's 96 GST. In my little GS, I can actually choose between the Champion (Chrysler) plugs or the NGKs. I usually pick the NGKs, but whatever is cheaper because that's how I roll .

 

[NYCRedlineTalon]

For some reason my turbo dsm's i've had in the past didn't like platinum plugs. But only the turbo one's its like my car wouldn't boost past 16psi no mater what. My friend had the same problem with his tsi, so not all ngk's are good. guess it depends on what you want out of your plugs

 

[ktgurl87]

That's what everyone's sayin NYC. That you should only put the NGK coppers in the cars. No platinums allowed is what I'm getting out of this thread.

 

[wishin4nX]

You want to keep a turbo cars combustion chamber as cool as possible IMO. Hence water/alcohol,nitrous, etc etc. Platinum plugs do the opposite.as said before, ngk plugs have been chosen by DSMers continously, for a reason. The OP tried something different, and I think that's a good thing, but at the end of the day ngks are what's in my car.

 

[Thomas91169]

without logs or actual data, OP is more or less just going off of butt dyno, which is always miscalibrated.

NGK is the go-to plug for every forced-induction application out there, import and domestic. Its that way for a reason.......

 

[NYCRedlineTalon]

You want to keep a turbo cars combustion chamber as cool as possible IMO. Hence water/alcohol,nitrous, etc etc. Platinum plugs do the opposite.as said before, ngk plugs have been chosen by DSMers continously, for a reason. The OP tried something different, and I think that's a good thing, but at the end of the day ngks are what's in my car.

so copper cools quicker correct? I understand now, so copper ngk's it is 24/7.