Jeep TB review

[Beclipse_gs]

i was reading the link to the sight you gave me diagraming the whole process , do you use the butterfly flap out of the Eclipse tb in place of the jeep butterfly flap ??? isant the eclipse flap smaller ???

 

[Doug99RS]

Update: Looks like I'm not going to be making any more of these for a while. I've got one on the car now but I don't feel it comfortable selling it. That and I don't have the money to purchase any more Jeep TB's. Just figured I'd let everyone know since alot of people have been waiting patiently.
Doug

 

[eclipse13]

Originally posted by Doug99RS
Update: Looks like I'm not going to be making any more of these for a while. I've got one on the car now but I don't feel it comfortable selling it. That and I don't have the money to purchase any more Jeep TB's. Just figured I'd let everyone know since alot of people have been waiting patiently.
Doug

I don't have amy ,oney and i cant get a job until i turn 16 (in sept.). I am still interested and i was wondering if you would be able to do one baybe around November. If not i can wait just about as long as you need me too. Just keep me updated

 

[SnoopySLR]

is there a reason you don't feel good about selling it? Is it causing problems?

 

[Doug99RS]

Originally posted by SnoopySLR
is there a reason you don't feel good about selling it? Is it causing problems?

So far I've sold three and am running the fourth one on my car now. I've had one person totally screw up the install and I had to give him personal assistance to get it all right. He later had concerns with the throttle plate sticking partially open, I offered to fix it at no charge and he declined. He continued to have problems after he "fixed" it and kept bugging me about it. At that time I told him it's his problem since I offered to fix it at no charge. I'd stand behind my work but not his.

The second person bought one and claims the throttle spring broke and left the throttle plate open causing him to rear end someone at low speeds. I offered to buy the TB back from him but he declined. He has yet to return the cores so I am out 1 stock tb and upper intake. His core charge is lost and so is my tech support to him.

The third person is Malenko. He's now turbo'ed the car and has yet to have any problems with it. He's been very happy with it and hopefully will continue to be.

The fourth one, on my car has been on for several months now and is working ok but I am still having a slight problem getting the throttle plate to close 100% of the time. This would not be terribly noticeable for someone with an automatic but I'm sure I'd still have problems if it were sold to someone with a 5 speed.

I've been wanting to make more of them so I can work out all the bugs but ran out of money shortly after finishing all my cylinder head work. I know I could do the mod better just can't right now.

Until I KNOW I can sell a product that will not cause any problems then I don't want to offer them anymore unless it's to people in town that I can give help if they need it. I'm talking right now with someone who may be able to get me some TB's to perfect this thing on but for now... I'm not making anymore.
Doug

 

[SniperXr2]

Doug99, do you live near camp Legune(sp) it is a millitary base. I will be up there in one or two weeks and be staying for a while, If you have time and dont live to far I wouldnt mind one Money isnt a problem so I would be able to purchase the stuff required for it, if you would assemble it and help me install it. Let me know, If not then I would be intrested in one when you start making them again. Thanks man.
-Rob

 

[Doug99RS]

I'm a couple hours away from Camp Legune. It would take me more than a day to do everything I needed plus I'd have to have all my tools (air tools included) and this is not something I just build one day and sell the next. As I've tried to explain I do NOT want these things turned out in two or three days and have no time for me to test drive the thing.
Doug

 

[TalonSpeed]

Okay since the Jeep TB seems to be a hot item these days and I have one and I am person number one Doug talks about in the above post, I am gonna give everybody here the low down dirty on this TB.

I installed this TB with the modified manifold at one time. I misplaced a vacuum hose, broke a MAP sensor bolt, and bolted down the TB cable wrong. These things didnt affect my high ilde what so ever.

I have had nothing but on going problems with this TB setup. And dealing with a childish, one track mind mechanic hasn't help the situation. After installing I noticed my car would idle real funny, needle bouncing from 1100-1300. What caused this was a combination of bad spring tension and a uncorrectly adjusted IAC tip. This type of idle will cause the CEL to come on. Both of these problems somehow "misteriously" occured because i installed the TB. The TB, sensors, and manifold were already together when i got them, hmmmmmm.

Next I noticed the car would accelerate when my foot was off the gas, and idle at 5000 rpm. This was caused by a combination of two things: 1-the TB spring kept getting hung on a gap between the spring seat and the TB due to Doug getting a little too happy with the saw\dremel, and 2-the Throttle Position sensor was shot (also causes the CEL).

Of course i traded my perfectly working TP senor in with my OE throttle body and was stuck with a worn out broken one. (approx $45 at autozone).

I am kinda glad to see that I am no the only person having problems with this setup, hell Doug you even having problems, . But I am sad to see that someone crashed their car using this setup. I hope no one was hurt in the accident. I almost hit someone too one day when the car was accelerating on its own up a hill in heavy traffic.

So basically to sum this shit up, I got ripped off to the 3rd degree. And for all those smart comments in message boards and instant messenger, u talk a good one over the internet, but I doubt it is like that in person.

 

[Malenko]

"The third person is Malenko. He's now turbo'ed the car and has yet to have any problems with it. He's been very happy with it and hopefully will continue to be. "

I am still extremely pleased with the throttle body I feel that it compliments my turbo set up just fine. I had no problems with the install (my father and I put it on, nothing special only had my pops help cause it never hurts to have an extra pair of hands).

I hate to see someone like doug being lamb basted, he offered to help the first guy but the guy was a bit pigheaded (as we all are at one time or another) and if I were doug I wouldnt have messed with it after he "fixed it". his misinstall may have triggered all the other things, the world will never know.

I still have complete faith in doug, and if it wasnt a good mod so many people woudlnt have done it (metal jim has a write up on 2GNT.com and NUMEROUS neon guys did it first)

 

[Doug99RS]

As you saw in my previous post I did not mention any names. So your speaking up and naming yourself. If you had read the post and understood it then you'd see that one of the main reasons I have NOT been making any more was because of the quality. Now... if you'd like to bash me for the quality that I'm TRYING to maintain or even obtain then you go right ahead. But as everyone has seen in this and every other thread... this mod has been put on hold by my own choice.

If a personal encounter is what you'd really like then I'm sure you know how to find me. I personally think it would be in your best interest to keep things online.

I offered to install it for $40 bucks. You declined. You said you'd have another mechanic install it, you did it. You installed it wrong, I fixed it at no charge. You needed a few more things done, I did them for a couple of cheeseburgers. You continued to have minor problems, I offered to help and mentioned no price, you said you'd do it. You went in and altered my work and still had problems. It was only then that I offered to help at a charge. You declined again. You live in town and rejected my personal assistance time and time again. What more did you expect from me?

If you have a problem or ideas regarding the concept of this mod then your input is welcome. If you have a problem with me and the work I've done then take it up in PM or in person or if you really want people to know what you think of my craftsmanship then add it to a section regarding the quality and service a particular supplier gives.
Doug

 

[TalonSpeed]

If speaking the TRUTH is bashing or lamb blasting Doug, than that is a problem on its own right there.

I dont know if you guys have noticed but I speak the TRUTH, and have held my tongue on many post about the Jeep TB.
FACT - Doug has never worked on my TB, and to say he has is a bald face lie. Doug fixed that broken bolt, and fixed a couple vacuum hoses, NEVER TOUCHING my throttle body.

FACT - 2 out of the 3 people with this setup made by Doug has had problems (66% chance of having a bad one.....NOT GOOD)

FACT - 1 out of the 3 people has had an accident, another has almost.

FACT - other people who have did the JeepTB setup themselves have had similar problems.

I wonder who this second person is. I would love to hear what they have to say.

And once gain, talking a good one over the internet, but quiet as a mouse in person................I dont get it

 

[Doug99RS]

Originally posted by TalonSpeed
If speaking the TRUTH is bashing or lamb blasting Doug, than that is a problem on its own right there.

I dont know if you guys have noticed but I speak the TRUTH, and have held my tongue on many post about the Jeep TB.
FACT - Doug has never worked on my TB, and to say he has is a bald face lie. Doug fixed that broken bolt, and fixed a couple vacuum hoses, NEVER TOUCHING my throttle body.


--- I found the vacuum line that you left off, I flipped the throttle plate right side up, I adjusted the tension with the one bolt that you had because you lost the other, I later extracted the map sensor bolt that you rung in two, I replaced BOTH the map sensor screws with two out of my own stock at the fee of a couple of cheese burgers.

FACT - 2 out of the 3 people with this setup made by Doug has had problems (66% chance of having a bad one.....NOT GOOD)

---- If I stop at 3 then my failure rate will stay at 66%. You cannot say, nor can I, what the success rate will be in the future but to say that 66% of the ones I have yet to make will be failures cannot be backed up with any proof. It will only get better from here as I will not settle for low quality work. The fact that I TRIED to buy back the TB from the guy in the accident, I informed malenko before he even installed his and offered to buy it back too, and the fact that I gave you as much assistance as you would allow me to is proof enough that I am trying very hard to stand behind my work.


FACT - other people who have did the JeepTB setup themselves have had similar problems.
-----This is an ongoing problem and with many mods that are being done by individuals not all will have a 100% normal operating condition while still obtaining the performance enhancement they were designed for in the first place. If I can't make anymore then I have no opportunity to perfect the product.

I wonder who this second person is. I would love to hear what they have to say.
-----I'm not going to call them out. They'll have to speak up on their own. And the simple fact that I said upfront the problems they have had is proof enough that I am not lying or covering up my own failures.

And once gain, talking a good one over the internet, but quiet as a mouse in person................I dont get it

You want me to tell you this to your face name a time and a place and I will do it. I'm quiet as a mouse in person until I have had enough. I've had enough. You want to settle this in person... we will. But remember you're the one that keeps bringing up the person to person meeting and the reprocutions will be your own to deal with.
Doug

 

[dudasd]

Originally posted by TalonSpeed
If speaking the TRUTH is bashing or lamb blasting Doug, than that is a problem on its own right there.

I dont know if you guys have noticed but I speak the TRUTH, and have held my tongue on many post about the Jeep TB.
FACT - Doug has never worked on my TB, and to say he has is a bald face lie. Doug fixed that broken bolt, and fixed a couple vacuum hoses, NEVER TOUCHING my throttle body.

FACT - 2 out of the 3 people with this setup made by Doug has had problems (66% chance of having a bad one.....NOT GOOD)

FACT - 1 out of the 3 people has had an accident, another has almost.

FACT - other people who have did the JeepTB setup themselves have had similar problems.

I wonder who this second person is. I would love to hear what they have to say.

And once gain, talking a good one over the internet, but quiet as a mouse in person................I dont get it

OK, let me step up to the plate and defend Doug and his product. First off Talonspeed, we have chatted a couple times on IM and you had some very not so intelligent ideas on how things are supposed to be installed on your car and how to fix them, so your word is getting pretty shady in my book. Secondly, as far as Doug and his products go I would be willing to put my entire years worth of income on his abilities and such as both a tech and fabricator. To date he has helped me with the following:
1. UDP install, not hard but he did it flawlessly.
2. Adjusted the rear brakes, once again nothing major, but a nice thank you touch.
3. Headgasket, head rebuild...went the extra mile to include hot tanking the block and everything else to make sure the job was done properly, put in my new lifters, valve springs, retainers, keepers etc.... once again a FLAWLESS job that turned out very nicely.
Out of all of this, what was asked for in return? Nothing much but buy him some lunch at times and put out the good word amongst other tuners. The later of which I will do just becuase if I wanted to count on someone to work on my 420A I would have no problem at all putting complete faith in his abilities. I'm sorry that you managed to have a problem with one of his products, but when the offer was out to correct it you declined: Why if you have a problem with a product would you decline the assistance of the manufacturer unless..
1. Your to pigheaded or...
2. You aparently did something to screw it up and didn't want him to know about it.

Either way I know that all of the TB's that went out were on his car for a MINIMUM of 2 weeks to make sure they worked properly before they got shipped out. How many people do you buy parts from thatare willing to put their own car at risk to ensure you get a QUALITY, WORKING product? The 2 "problems" that have arisen seem to have some shady circumstances behind them from what I can tell. Maybe if you guys had half a sense to turn a wrench your install would have turned out like Malenkos. Sorry for being long winded but I really hate when people try to bash a competent asset to the boards due to their incompetance.

 

[1TuffRS]

Well, FYI Doug and I are partners in this endeavor. First off, before Talonspeed got the TB setup it was on Dougs car for about a week w/o any probs. We gave it to Talonspeed, who was quite sure he and a family member could install it themselves. Well then all these problems arose. Doug offered to fix it, but he said he could handle it. It kept getting worse and worse and to be honest with you, I think all of that could have been avoided if you had just let doug look at it.

Person two with the broken spring situation was interesting to me too. That actual TB setup was on MY car for about a month and a half with ZERO problems. Then about a week after the guy gets the TB he IMs us and says the TB spring broke and caused him to get in an accident. I guess he thought Doug and I didnt talk regularly because we compared notes and he told us two different stories..

Doug is absolutely anal about the work he does and I wouldnt trust anyone with my car more than him. There have been multiple times Doug has stepped in to save my a$$ when doing work to my car. He knows his shit and with him in my court I have NO problems selling this TB setup to people. Every set-up we sold went on his car and then mine (him being auto and me being 5-spd) to test their quality and durability. So before a TB leaves our hands they are deemed up to par. This is why I question the ones who had issues with it.

And Cordell as far as Doug not saying anything in person, its because he is a damn hot head. I have had to calm him down many many times in the past and he is NOT one you want to confront. He always has his pocket knife on him and owns several guns. My advice to both of you would be to calm down and let this crap go because if it keeps going where its going someone will get hurt. In fact on one occasion when we were hanging outat a friends place his neighbor came out shouting at us and accused me of being a drug dealer, as Im just trying to take all this in I see Doug taking off all his shit ready to step over there and beat him down. You may think you know him, but he will be reserved until a line is crossed and then you get hit full on. You crossed a line in this thread man, you might want to consider PMing him and trying to bring this to an end

 

[RoadRacingDSM]

This post is also in Doug's defense. I know that each and every TB setup that Toney and Doug sold have been installed and working on their cars for at least 30 days before they were sold. All of which had the bugs worked out at the time of purchase. I'm not sure why Cordell refuses to let Doug correct the problems. However I know that I can trust Doug's craftmanship. Also his work ethic is far and beyond what I would call anal. He wants everything to be 100% correct, and he wants you to be 100% happy with his service. Its not his fault if you refuse his assistance.

Also for those that do not know me I used to own a 420A powered Eclipse, and I too have had dealings with Doug with my car. Mainly just his advice that I followed and had good results with.

 

[ECLIPSE4x4]

I can not speak on the jeep TB itself, but I am going to speak on Dougs reputation as a tech instead.

I have known Doug a little while now. And to describe him as a shade tree mechanic so to speak is absolutely bull. I have had a few questions dealing with suspension issues and Doug has helped me. Even dug up info out of his shop manuals. So Doug by far wings anything and does NOT do any half assed jobs.

To me it just sounds like a disgruntled person who did a shotty install and is now trying to sling mud. Keep the childish bull in the school yard please.

 

[Doug99RS]

I think it's safe to say that both sides have been heard on the matter of the jeep throttle body overall as well as the craftsmanship of one of the few people actually offering this mod (me).

I encourage anyone involved in this thread or those wishing to be involved in it keep this thread from getting nastier and then locked. I feel it's important to provide accurate, truthful, and valuable information for all those wishing to learn about this performance component. However, I don't think it's necessary to continue personal attacks on those who have the Jeep TB nor those who make it.

As with everything I do I try to improve my work each time I do it. Because of this I've been able to improve my last TB and found out some more information on which Jeep TB's will have more components that will be a closer direct fit without any Idle air control motor conversions. The 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee with an automatic has an Idle air control motor that will plug directly in to the eclipse wiring harness (stumbled across this today) and I have figured out a way to keep the throttle spring from slipping in to a position that will cause it to stick open at a rather unlikeable position.

However, one problem I have yet to resolve is the intermittant sticking of the plate to the housing when the throttle is suddenly let off, causing it to slam shut. The end result is a slight extra effort needed to open it but really not a pain considering the weight of a person's foot. The second issue is the same problem just happens at a different time. This problem occurs when the throttle plate is closed slowly. The result being that there is not enough pressure to close the plate all the way. This is un-desireable for a 5 spd car because when the clutch is pushed in the idle will go very high. On an auto-car the affects are similar to having a cruise control type feel when you are actually trying to slow down. The brakes are enough to stop the car and the idle control motor idles the car down when you come to a complete stop. Also, a slight pop on the accelerator peddle will close the plate to where it's supposed to be.

The problems listed in that last paragraph seem to be right in line with those experienced by everyone else who has tried or successfully made a Jeep TB fit an eclipse. It's something that I hope to be able to solve as I make more of these (whether I use them on my own car or sell them) but so far... I'm doing just as good as the next guy on my latest attempt.

Everything's out in the open. I don't know what else to tell those not involved in this dispute. Just know that of the four I've made, I've tried over and over again to make sure they were happy with their product and offered to buy back or fix the product for those that weren't.
Doug

 

[LandoAWD]

I will also vouch for Doug's quality work on a car, though I do not use the Jeep TB mod for obvious reasons. Cordell, I suggest you calm down and try to realize that the problems you experienced could be due to a shitty mechanic. (as in the one who installed it...as in you) Doug, I understand the frustration, but lets not hurt anyone

I have had my car serviced in several cases by Doug, including but not limited to, a 11pm VC gasket swap that helped me make it home to Chapel hill from Myrtle beach (4 hours). He did this in the dark with a flashlight and second rate RTV, and managed to get me home. Shadetree; Doug is not. He even torqued the bolts to spec in the pouring down rain (albeit with a Autozone wrench we purchased in a rush...never again ) while peeking in the manual.

In short, Cordell, perhaps you should take someone up on the install for a nominal fee if they can do it right, and don't forget not to loose bolts or leave vac lines disconnected. Perhaps you should also consider the help of those trying to rectify an issue that they may have more experience in than yourself. I would be glad to say these things to you in person, if you don't "take my word for it" over the net.

 

[TalonSpeed]

OH , I am dying laughing over here. If someone where to read this post they would think I am shot up, stab, or have been beat down by 5 or 6 people...........NOT! Cordell and his car is in great shape, not a mark on me except the one I was born with.

I dont know if doug agrees with me, but I think we are settled on our issue. I met him at work as soon as i read his post. We talked about a lot of stuff, each made valid points. The point is I had 3 things causing a funny idle, misplaced vacuum hose(my fault), bad TP sensor which I still had laying around and let doug see (it came with the TB already installed), and uneven spring seat(came with the TB already installed). Doug knows the issues and has developed a way to solve these problems. Doug has diagnosed problems with a new TB setup he has that mine doesnt have, so I cant speak on that. I told doug about my 3 strike policy.........basically if it aint right the 3rd time see somebody else, he didnt agree with me on that, but that is his opinion which I respect.

Do I think Doug is a good mechanic? Yes. I know doug has done plenty of flawless work but does that mean I am wrong? NO

If someone asked me do I think this is a good mod? I would say yes, just report all stuff good or bad to Doug.

I told Doug that my beef isnt with the idle, the TB, the manifold, or the $45 sensor. My beef was with the out of place unneccessay smart comments, in message boards, in emails, and in instant messages. That is my beef. I have never called him a bad mechanic or anything of that nature. My post are made of factual data, not name calling. Doug recognised this today and understood where i am coming from.

Now for the 4 people running off at the mouth (not including Toney or Doug).........

It is good that u come to your friend's defense, but dont make up lies and stories about us talking, when I dont know you! You dont know me! And you dont want to get to know me! None of you have seen my TB, let alone under my hood. I think I met 3 of you in person once, neither of which talked shit in person, funny how the internet changes people. And RoadRacingDSM I dont know if you or your wife made that post, I hope she is doing good and your new child, but keep my name out of your mouth. Kris I cant remember seeing you in my entire life, but you sure know me right?? But then u must dont by looking at your last sentence.

Eclipse4x4 I thought u were better than those comments you made. I really thought u were not gonna make a post at all, or make a real bad shit talking one, u did neither, you can do better.

And Dudasd I cant remember meeting, or talking to you either, and I am sure you dont know shit about me, or my car, but somehow the internet has given you all this info.

And like I said earlier, good ones are spoken over the internet, but better ones are spoken in person. Paypal me some gas money and address, let make a date.

 

[Ludachris]

This has gone on long enough... please settle stuff like this offline.