Japanese market experts: Transmission from Japan clarification ????

[dsm-onster]

Are the T/E/L transmissions built the same between US and Japan? For example, does a 1990 car to be shipped from Illinois to Japan have the same internals as a 1990 car that stays here?

This ebay seller is telling me for "jdm market" that ALL 1990-1994 motors and transmissions are the same. All have a 6 bolt motor and have the same spline count for the transfercase. . . His english is not the best, and I'm not sure if some of what he's saying has been lost in the translation. Here is our brief email conversation:

Dear j*******8,

Do you know what year car this transmission came from?

Thanx,

Response: came out of 90-94


The 1990 used a different spline count in the transfer case. It also had weaker syncros along with other internal differences. So was it from a 1991-1994? or a 1990? Or are you not sure?


Response: the information that you stated below is totally false and wrong infowhen it comes to jdm market, i have 15years experience in this businessHere is the explanation for you

90-94 Ist Gen 4G63-T regular turbo 14G Cyclone 6bolt
90-94 3rd Gen 4G63-T 16G turbo EVO-3 580cc injectors, you are probably talking about this one

both motors are produced in 1st gen and the regular one too, the tranny is extremely strong the evo one do have a very strong tranny that is capable of holding more 400psiAnd the regular one is good for upto 300psi​

I just responded with 'Thank you for the great information. What is the VIN and/or Transmission code on the bell housing, to verify this?'

So is he right? I don't think so. I don't care about how bad his english is and his mistakes in specific english acronyms and nomenclature. I just want to be sure I'm getting run around in circles with his answers . It has a 6bolt flywheel still on the transmission input shaft. . .

 

[viperlp01]

Some JDM galants had switchable transmissions. You could go from AWD to front wheel i believe.... EVO 3s came with 510cc injectors stock... What is he talking about . Ya 90s have different spline counts, 90-92 are the only 6 bolts that were produced. after that they made 7 bolts in all TEL's. He is wrong


Man that is alot of psi . 400-300 psi. He might lift the head at that level.

 

[dsm-onster]

Well. I know about US T/E/Ls. I know about the 6bolt/7bold stuff and the 22 vs. 23 spline trannies. And the difficulty to do a high performance rebuild to a 1990 AWD tranny. . . This transmission for sale came from a 6-bolt motor, because I see the flywheel. That means that it cam from a 1990-1992 so that narrows down the year. But this guy is saying that "JDM eclipses", eclipses sold in japan (built in normal, IL), all had 6 bolt motors; 1990-1994, not 1990-1992. And that all 1990-1994 transmissions are the same.

I just want to know the d@mn spline count on the shaft to the transfer case!!!! I don't want to neccesarily buy a 1990 transmission because of the issues with performance rebuilding. I requested a VIN and/or transmissino code number. Maybe he'll supply that. The shifter levers on the tranny appear to be the long ones that the 1990 22spline unit have. . .

 

[twicks69]

Matt,

If you can, pick up an evo3 trans, and swap your output shaft (it comes with a 23-spline shaft in it), and then use your US-spec output shaft pinion gear, with new tapered roller bearings and races, and swap over to your US-spec front differential ring gear (should be a 58-tooth for 1G AWD US-spec), and swap your speed sensor for the US-spec one (if you are using your stock 1G AWD complete front differential and NOT the JDM one).

The benefits of using an EVO 3 transmission is the fact that you will have chromoly shift rails and railends for the 1/2 and 3/4, along with stronger shift forks for all of them, you will also have a double synchro 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear, along with a limited slip front differential, and a taller 1st gear, shorter 3rd and 4th gear, and a taller 5th gear ratio.

If you go with the standard 90-94 JDM 5-speed AWD transmission, it will likely be 6-bolt, and will be a 23-spline output shaft. I have not seen any JDM transmissions over here yet with a 22-spline output shaft -- but that doesn't mean anything.

I would suggest having the seller send you an actual photo of the transmission that you are purchasing, and make him count the splines on the output shaft of the transmission.

Also, if it weighs around 125#, I can tell you for a fact that it will be an open front differential. If it is around 135-140#, it will have a limited slip front differential. There is that much of a weight difference between the stock open diff and the LSD front diff.


Good luck!

 

[99redgst]

Matt,

If you can, pick up an evo3 trans,

Do you know where one could source one other than a random ebay find?

 

[dsm-onster]

Than you so much Tim!

i have photos. They are clear enough to see the 6bolt flywheel still on the transmission shaft.

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I can't even get this guy to give me the tranny code number. He says it's a w5m33 off the top of his head but won't go get the rest of the number. I could find out for sure then. . . It's turning into a joke.

I will use that information you gave me. So, generally, will an evo3 transmisssion tolerate more torque than a US T/E/L transmission?

I'm a transmission noob. All I've done is swap an lsd insert into my FWD 5speed. And a bunck of clutch work. I don't have an AWD tranny. I'm doing an automatic to 5speed conversion for a 1991. This guy is providing the transfer case too, so I'm not so concerned about the spline count. It would be nice if it were the 23spline since they have been known to be easier to performance rebuild. But, I mainly just would like to be sure the final drive ratios will match up between JDM and USDM. Because I don't have a 5speed front diff ring gear. He's selling this on ebay from a car that has reached the limit for mileage like many of the "JDM" vendors on ebay. He isn't being very forthcoming on anything. I'm not going to go into a tranny, unless it will be worth my while, like doing something you've suggested to end up with a stronger transmission.

I'm still confused. Does the japanese AWD eclipse all have the same final drive ratio as the US ones?

 

[twicks69]

Do you know where one could source one other than a random ebay find?

Not currently -- usually I keep one in my back pocket

 

[dsm-onster]

I have a 1991 a/t shell so I won't need to do anything about an evo3 tranny outputshaft since I have a 23spline transfer case, correct? All I would need to do is swap to an 1g AWD front diff ring gear and get a 5speed rear diff, correct?

I wonder if I could use the evo3 tranny as is and just swap the rear diff of the a/t car with an evo rear diff. It would basically feel just like an evo when you would drive it since the final drive would be an evo3 final drive instead of a DSM final drive. Since I need a rear diff swap any way, would this work? I hear about 2g diffs being used in 1g cars. . . Nevermind. I researched. That can't be true because of the different mounting locations for the diff and the axles mont on the diffs differently while the axles are different length.

 

[99redgst]

I guess since I already have a front Quaife and a four spider, I could just pick up the evo3 gearset and be just as well off if not better. You do trans work correct? Shoot me a pm on an evo 3 gearset install if its something you could take care of.

 

[twicks69]

Than you so much Tim!

i have photos. They are clear enough to see the 6bolt flywheel still on the transmission shaft.

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I can't even get this guy to give me the tranny code number. He says it's a w5m33 off the top of his head but won't go get the rest of the number. I could find out for sure then. . . It's turning into a joke.

I will use that information you gave me. So, generally, will an evo3 transmisssion tolerate more torque than a US T/E/L transmission?

I'm a transmission noob. All I've done is swap an lsd insert into my FWD 5speed. And a bunck of clutch work. I don't have an AWD tranny. I'm doing an automatic to 5speed conversion for a 1991. This guy is providing the transfer case too, so I'm not so concerned about the spline count. It would be nice if it were the 23spline since they have been known to be easier to performance rebuild. But, I mainly just would like to be sure the final drive ratios will match up between JDM and USDM. Because I don't have a 5speed front diff ring gear. He's selling this on ebay from a car that has reached the limit for mileage like many of the "JDM" vendors on ebay. He isn't being very forthcoming on anything. I'm not going to go into a tranny, unless it will be worth my while, like doing something you've suggested to end up with a stronger transmission.

I'm still confused. Does the japanese AWD eclipse all have the same final drive ratio as the US ones?

There was no JDM eclipse. The final drive ratio on that specific transmission (if it is an Evo 3 transmission) is different from the US-spec ones.

As well, the 22-spline vs. the 23-spline output shaft...I have not heard of anyone having performance issues with the 22-spline ones. The key thing would be the transfer case, and the shaft spline wear that would cause it to fail.

I could help you out, and install a matching front diff ring gear and output pinion gear with new tapered roller bearings for you. I have several matched sets at home. I could also do a quick refresh on it if it required it.

PM me if you go that route.

Personally, if they aren't going to give you the part number suffix that is stamped on the bellhousing, I wouldn't purchase it as you are then going to have to trust them to get it right. That is your choice. If it is an Evo 3 transmission, then you are in luck.

Either way, even if it is a JDM GVR4 transmission that is shipped to you, it will likely have a different final drive ratio than your vehicle, so you will need to still install the proper front differential ring gear and the output shaft pinion gear to match your stock gear ratio.

 

[dsm-onster]

I will pm you if I get the tranny code from this guy. I'll probably pm you no matter which transmission I get. I have a few other questions I'll want to ask once I get over this hurdle. Thanx again.

 

[twicks69]

Anytime man, that is what I am here for!

 

[dsm-onster]

Here's some good information sent to me by member: blue90GSX.

Hello,
Stumbled accross your thread and since I have lived in Japan the last 5 years, thought I could share some knowledge on the subject.

1g Eclipses are in Japan, although very rare, it was badged the Eclipse GSR-4 and had the same chassis code of D27A. It was nearly identical to the USDSM, even was a left hand drive. One of the only differences I have found is that the speedo was in kmh instead of mph, also no sunroof or leather, pretty much plain jane. The D27A in the Japanese CAPS has the codes below for the transmission. The USDSM and Japanese version of the DSM share the same gear ratios.

From JDM CAPS, D27A Transmission

8909-9012
W5M33-2-NQZS

9101-9305
W5M33-2-NQXV

From US CAPS, D27A Transmission

8903-9006
W5M33-2-NPZS

9006-9402
W5M33-2-NPXV

You have to be very careful when buying a tranny from over here, there were many vehicles produced with the W533-2 tranny. And of course if there has been anything changed inside the tranny after it left the factory you wouldnt know it until it was diassembled. Just my two cents on the subject.
Good Luck​

 

[Afroclipse]

Tigerjapanese.com be sure to request the Tranny code you want.

 

[HIGHPSI4]

Picking this up late. If I understand correctly, all engines and transmissions (4G63/4G37/4G64, etc) were assembled in Japan and shipped over here. Is this true?

I have a switchable trans in my car and I have had three others. None of these transmissions had the W5M33 code stamped on the top. All have some other code. If it has the W5M33 code on it that should be the same as a USDM transmission.

 

[brisvr4]

That does not look like an Evo box. If you notice, the support for the half-shaft is stepped where it bolts to the block. Evo's aren't stepped. Also, by the look of the transfer case it should be a 23 spline if the front section of the case is cast iron.
The pre-1990 ( pre-facelift ) Galants had a 22 spline transfer that was all alloy and the post 1990 ( facelift ) models had the 1/2 alloy and 1/2 cast iron 23 spline transfer cases.
The fact that the box is apparently a W5M33 leads me to think it is a facelift box.

But I would agree with the other guys on here when they say not to part with any money until you are completely certain of what you are getting!

 

[blackrosenova40]

Matt,

If you can, pick up an evo3 trans, and swap your output shaft (it comes with a 23-spline shaft in it), and then use your US-spec output shaft pinion gear, with new tapered roller bearings and races, and swap over to your US-spec front differential ring gear (should be a 58-tooth for 1G AWD US-spec), and swap your speed sensor for the US-spec one (if you are using your stock 1G AWD complete front differential and NOT the JDM one).

The benefits of using an EVO 3 transmission is the fact that you will have chromoly shift rails and railends for the 1/2 and 3/4, along with stronger shift forks for all of them, you will also have a double synchro 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear, along with a limited slip front differential, and a taller 1st gear, shorter 3rd and 4th gear, and a taller 5th gear ratio.

If you go with the standard 90-94 JDM 5-speed AWD transmission, it will likely be 6-bolt, and will be a 23-spline output shaft. I have not seen any JDM transmissions over here yet with a 22-spline output shaft -- but that doesn't mean anything.

I would suggest having the seller send you an actual photo of the transmission that you are purchasing, and make him count the splines on the output shaft of the transmission.

Also, if it weighs around 125#, I can tell you for a fact that it will be an open front differential. If it is around 135-140#, it will have a limited slip front differential. There is that much of a weight difference between the stock open diff and the LSD front diff.


Good luck!

Do you know any bellhousing numbers for that Evo 3 trans? Specifically with the LSD

 

[99redgst]

Do you know any bellhousing numbers for that Evo 3 trans? Specifically with the LSD

They all start W5M33-2 but then the final 4 letters determine what box/LSD setup.

UPFE is a RS box with LSD
UPYE is a RS box with no LSD
UPGE is a GSR box with no LSD
UPWE is a GSR box with LSD

 

[94awdcoupe]

I own an evo 1 and have lots of tranny knowledge. I have five spare transmissions for the evo. been collecting them when they pop up on e-bay. I also have another car with 575tq that breaks transmissions fairly often.

There is one other problem with LSD box that Tim did not mention. The evo 1-3 LSD was a factory option. The right side CV joint has a special longer nose. If you find one of these transmissions you will want to get that special CV with it. The US spec cv is too short and will not lock in place. I first used one of these trannies with US joint and it sheared the tip off at the track. Luckily the car will still drive. But it is grave inconvenience to fix. the other axle has to be taken out to get broken piece out.

Most of the importers have no knowledge of this special joint and most of these trans are coming over here with out axles.

The rear end the trans uses is 3.909. the us markets DSM is 3.54 and 3.3 for auto. I believe the awd 5speed expo used the 3.909 gear but have not confirmed this myself. You would have to build the rear end with the ring and pinion as the cases I know are different.

Tim, I havent tried the ring gear swap yet. Is the pinion gear the same?

 

[twicks69]

I own an evo 1 and have lots of tranny knowledge. I have five spare transmissions for the evo. been collecting them when they pop up on e-bay. I also have another car with 575tq that breaks transmissions fairly often.

There is one other problem with LSD box that Tim did not mention. The evo 1-3 LSD was a factory option. The right side CV joint has a special longer nose. If you find one of these transmissions you will want to get that special CV with it. The US spec cv is too short and will not lock in place. I first used one of these trannies with US joint and it sheared the tip off at the track. Luckily the car will still drive. But it is grave inconvenience to fix. the other axle has to be taken out to get broken piece out.

Most of the importers have no knowledge of this special joint and most of these trans are coming over here with out axles.

The rear end the trans uses is 3.909. the us markets DSM is 3.54 and 3.3 for auto. I believe the awd 5speed expo used the 3.909 gear but have not confirmed this myself. You would have to build the rear end with the ring and pinion as the cases I know are different.

Tim, I havent tried the ring gear swap yet. Is the pinion gear the same?

The pinion is also a different diameter -- you would need the ring and output pinion shaft to complete the gear ratio to be used with a US-spec transfer case and rear end..

Great info on the axle cup length! I will need to inspect my Evo 3 front clutch-type LSD I was going to install in my next race transmission and give it a try -- I will definitely need to check what is going on with that axle cup then!

 

[twicks69]

I did a quick search for 2G passenger-side inner axle joints and the associated part number for the Evo 1/2/3 with and without the LSD front differential.

The 2G AWD DSM and the Evo 1/2/3 RS/GSR without the LSD front differential have the same passenger-side axle joint part number of MR196876.

The Evo 1/2/3 RS/GSR with the LSD front differential has a passenger-side axle joint with a different part number of MR166160. Unfortunately, I cannot get my hands on this specific part number through my business venues, and it must be purchased from a Mitsubishi parts warehouse that receives JDM orders.

I have seen two different styles of front LSD's come out of the Evo 3 transmission though....Viscous and Clutch Type front LSD's.

 

[94awdcoupe]

I was told axle has to be ordered through ralliart dealer, but that is likely not correct. I spent two years trying to find one. The dismantlers who know the CV is different wont separate from tranny. I finally found a guy in UK that could sell me one. Spent 250 for it and when it arrived it was not long nose. Then he lied about sending the correct one which I never got. I dont think the factory had two different LSD. The evo 3 is most sought after rally/hill climb car on the planet. Many trans may have received cusco or kazz upgrade. While the upgraded unit will use stock length CV the clutch pack diffs suck for street car. chatter too much even with LSD fluid. The stock LSD from mitsu is viscous type with 44 clutch plates. The cool part is its 250wt oil is sealed from reg tranny fluid. Her is a picture of that impossible to find CV next to US market one.

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[94awdcoupe]

There is another point I would like to make for anyone who is considering running one of these transmissions. If you want to swap ring and pinion in an evo trans there is another potential issue. The evo trans that came with LSD from factory have a ring gear that has larger bolt pattern than US market front diff. They do not swap. The LSD diff is larger and US spec ring gear will not bolt on. So if you bought an evo trans with LSD you wouldnt be able to keep the factory LSD if you switch to US spec ring and pinion. You will have to use US spec front diff as well. If you get an evo tranny that does not come with LSD from factory the ring gear pattern is the same as US model. And actually what make sense now that I think about it, There might not be an aftermarket diff with the EVO LSD bolt pattern. When they are swapping to after market diffs over there they are likely sourcing ring gear from non LSD tranny to make the after market (US pattern) diff bolt in.

 

[blackrosenova40]

Can you use your stock cv axles if you swapped your Us spec front diff? Or do you still need that rare cv axle with the evo trans?

There is another point I would like to make for anyone who is considering running one of these transmissions. If you want to swap ring and pinion in an evo trans there is another potential issue. The evo trans that came with LSD from factory have a ring gear that has larger bolt pattern than US market front diff. They do not swap. The LSD diff is larger and US spec ring gear will not bolt on. So if you bought an evo trans with LSD you wouldnt be able to keep the factory LSD if you switch to US spec ring and pinion. You will have to use US spec front diff as well. If you get an evo tranny that does not come with LSD from factory the ring gear pattern is the same as US model. And actually what make sense now that I think about it, There might not be an aftermarket diff with the EVO LSD bolt pattern. When they are swapping to after market diffs over there they are likely sourcing ring gear from non LSD tranny to make the after market (US pattern) diff bolt in.

 

[Cesar]

I was told axle has to be ordered through ralliart dealer, but that is likely not correct. I spent two years trying to find one. The dismantlers who know the CV is different wont separate from tranny. I finally found a guy in UK that could sell me one. Spent 250 for it and when it arrived it was not long nose. Then he lied about sending the correct one which I never got. I dont think the factory had two different LSD. The evo 3 is most sought after rally/hill climb car on the planet. Many trans may have received cusco or kazz upgrade. While the upgraded unit will use stock length CV the clutch pack diffs suck for street car. chatter too much even with LSD fluid. The stock LSD from mitsu is viscous type with 44 clutch plates. The cool part is its 250wt oil is sealed from reg tranny fluid. Her is a picture of that impossible to find CV next to US market one.

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you should be able to find someone that can source this out for you locally.