It's a Cold day In Talonville...

[FrankenTSi]

*SOLVED* Was the Thermostat...*shakes his head* i feel like an idiot on this one.


Well, I hope I do not get gacked on this, I tried searching the forum (and other forums,and Google, etc) to try to find the same problem...but failed. (there are a few quirks about the car I am trying to figure out, but this is the important one)


It is a cold day in Talonville. My 95 Talon is not blowing hot air. Lukewarm at best, but often just barely any heat (enought o partially defrost the windows). Oh, common problem, I would think, except there is another monkeywrench in the equation:

The temperature gauge stays firmly pegged in the cold. Twitches MAYBE up a little.

Also, when I stopped at a starbucks (oh you yuppie, how dare you ) and sat there for about 5 min while they fixed my coffee, ONCE it went up to about halfway, and suddenly it was nice and warm in the cabin...

...until I started driving again. It's almost liek the engine is staying oh-my-god-cold, but that makes little sense to me.

Now I dabble a little, but by no means do I consider myself a mechanic (I change the oil, have done some minor repairs on cars as needed).

I have worked on OLDER domestics, where the Thermostat was it's own little world, popping open when warm enough <insert pointless explanation of old thermostats>. I have no idea how the thermostat works on a DSM.

Looking at the threads, it seems to indicate (aside form the wierd flux at starbucks, and the temperature gauge drop) that it could be:

Heater Core clogged/bad
Thermostat
Heater flap dead

But as I said, with the funky temp gauge activity, and the fact it DID warm up that one time, I eliminated the flap. Thermostat, I am still unknown about, and the core? *shrugs helplessly).

I had a nice balmy 3 degrees Fahrenheit drive to work today (Denver to Boulder) today, so would love to try to get that into the subtropics ^_^ (my fingers would thank you)

Help would be appreciated, flames used to make hamburgers, and gratis given to all who do help also by maybe pointing out a thread I missed in my searches.

Oh... and make it interesting, read my car profile. It may relay some info I may have missed in this post. (yes I DID actually fill it out to the best of my knowledge)

EDIT: I did check coolant level (forgot to mention that until a poster did). I saw lots of green, and lots of fluid (first car I have had that the fill point is ALONG a fluid line)

 

[bvass]

My guess is that your thermostat is stuck open. I would change that first.

 

[mattans]

Check your coolent, that was the problem with mine when it stopped blowing hot air. but my temp guage still worked fine.

 

[FrankenTSi]

My guess is that your thermostat is stuck open. I would change that first.

My only confusion on this is after an hour drive...its still blasted cold. I was under the impression (at least how old thermostats worked) that once the engine got warm enough, the thermostat just stayed open (am i relaying this right?) Essentially, after i have been driving it for an hour, it should be warm...

 

[zimfro]

The thermostat opens and closes as needed. When the temperature in your block is too hot, the thermostat opens and cooler fluid is pumped in. The warmer fluid is pushed(or pulled) out of the block into the radiator where it can cool off. If the thermostat is stuck open, the fluid continually circulates, spending little time in the engine block, and doesn't get warm. If you have your car running for a while, and you pop the hood, you should be able to touch the two hoses that connect to your radiator. One hose should feel cool to the touch, the other should feel warm to hot to the touch. If that is not the case, then you thermostat is stuck open.

 

[FrankenTSi]

Greetings Fellow Taloneer ^_^

Thank you for the more verbose explanation, and altering my logic on this (told you guys not really a mechanic). When iDrive (BMW joke) home today, I will do that touch test. If it indeed does not past the "temp", I will look at a thermostat replacement.


This does trouble me slightly in two ways (or should say, brings up two more questions that should not branch any more)

1: Is this going to damage my engine if I cannot get this done until say...Saturday/Sunday? I know overheating will nukeify an engine quite nicely, but running cold (and we mean cold, ladies and gents) I was told by someone that is bad for the turbo.

2: I saw mention of different "temperatures" of thermostats (a new thing for me). Is this thing hard to replace, and what temperature should I be getting (since obviously the FrankenTSi is not a stock beast by far)..

I have named my car already...*sigh*

 

[90laserRSfwd]

idk about this one either, I would say that it's a stuck open thermostat too. Only my buddy's 2g doesn't have a thermostat at all and in about 20 minutes it gets warm, now when we stop driving the heat becomes cold again till we start moving. The only 2 things I know of that can cause the heat not to work is when a heat gasket it blown (or almost gone) and when the heater core is not functional or hooked up. Did you check to see if the heater core is hooked up? it's a long shot, but stuff happens....

 

[FrankenTSi]

Thanks for replying.

Actually as i said, it got hot ONCE after this problem started up. It was getting hot beforehand. Just one day it decided "It would be a nice day to be a cold SOB"

I assumed since it got hot, it wasn't the heater core being disconnected

 

[Calan]

To me, it sounds more like you aren't getting any coolant flow at all through the block/heater core.

Even with a stuck open thermostat, your coolant would eventually reach equilibrium; the thermostat just makes this happen faster by staying closed until the engine is warmed up. Once it opens, coolant is circulated and will eventually warm until a balance is reached between the amount of heat the engine is producing, and how much of that heat can be removed by the radiator (and to some extent, air blowing over the heater core).

If you don't have any coolant flow, your temp sensor will read lower (because it is hanging in air instead of in coolant, and air doesn't transfer heat like coolant would), and your heater won't blow hot for the same reason... you're blowing air over hot air, instead of over hot coolant.

If you know for a fact that you have coolant, my first suspect would be the water pump. Since you are seeing the problem both with the heater and the temperature sensor, that leads me away from thinking it is heater specific. (If you had no heat but the engine temp showed normal, then I would think heater core, etc.). Other possibilities would be a blockage somewhere, like a stuck closed thermostat. You might try removing the thermostat completely and see if you get flow.

If you are flowing coolant, both radiator hoses will eventually (and rather quickly) reach the same temperature. Rather than relying on the hose temperatures, check to see if you have pressure in the upper radiator hose after the car warms up. It should be soft at first, and once the thermostat opens and coolant heats up, it will feel very firm due to the increased pressure of boiling coolant.

BTW - The temperature gauges in our cars are notoriously inaccurate. I haven't looked at your profile, but if you have a logger (or a friend with one), hook that up and see what the water temp actually is.

On a related note... if you aren't flowing any coolant, you're probably already overheating the engine and just can't tell because your temp gauge will be off as explained above.

 

[outkastracing]

sounds like the thermostat to me ###### stuck open take it out and put it in boiling water see if it opens and closes ###### and 180 degrees quick way to check and cheap to fix

 

[FrankenTSi]

BTW - The temperature gauges in our cars are notoriously inaccurate. I haven't looked at your profile, but if you have a logger (or a friend with one), hook that up and see what the water temp actually is.

On a related note... if you aren't flowing any coolant, you're probably already overheating the engine and just can't tell because your temp gauge will be off as explained above.

Oh crap... *prays this isn't it* It is currently my only operating car...

What is it with me and problem children (1992 Bravada with blown CPI Fuel spider, 1994 Buick with who knows WHAT fuse block broke)

90's cars just don't like me.

I have a SAFCII. Is there a way to set it to look at coolant Temp? I have a slot open (looking at knock sensor, but..heck, I will swap that for something else, just have to figure out HOW) and it is looking at Correction (I assume fuel flow correction), RPM, and throttle.

 

[Calan]

Well didn't mean to scare ya. As others have said, it could just be a faulty thermostat, and that's easy to check.

I mentioned what I did because with my car, even if I completely remove the thermostat, my coolant still gets hot. But I probably have a lot less flow through my radiator than you (A/C core + FMIC is blocking it) and it probably isn't as cold here either.

I haven't driven one of these in a super cold environment, but I still think the coolant would eventually get hot, even with continuous flow through the system. I know mine would... but then I can't keep my foot out of the gas either

Thermostats are cheap, easy to replace, and known to fail... try that first

 

[turboglenn]

It's not the weather/envviroment, it was -7 here yesterday and my car warmed fully up and stayed there as it does all winter every year in this hell hole of a frozen over wasteland. ( i need to move some where warm again, even my bones hurt from the cold here )

I would replace the thermostat and make sure it's got plenty of coolant either way. And, NO it won't hurt you to drive a few days on a stuck open t-stat ( if indeed that's what it is). Stuck closed woul be another story, but your car would be overheating if that was the case.

It's a really easy job, go buy a Thermostat and a gallon of coolant and a gallon of distilled water, and if you are having troubles pm me and i'll guide you through it. Hell if you want to call me for help on putting it in i'll shoot you my # over PM, just let me know. Also, remember that when putting coolant back in after fixing the t-stat, let the car warm up with out the coolant cap on it untill it "burps" a big air bubble when the t-stat opens then finish filling the motor/radiator with coolant.

I assume you know how to PM on forums, but in case you dont' reply here and i'll PM you the info.

I'm free for another month, so everyone that can use my help/services, you better make use of it now, because after Feb 19th i doubt i'll even get to see an eclipse except for driving to work and back

damn, i formatted my PC and lost ieSpell... gotta edit this one by hand and go download that thing. Once i got use to it i can't post/live without it hahahahaha

 

[FrankenTSi]

Well didn't mean to scare ya. As others have said, it could just be a faulty thermostat, and that's easy to check.

<snipped>
Thermostats are cheap, easy to replace, and known to fail... try that first

Sorry, didn't meant to make it look like i Freaked....Ok I did a little ^_^

I am just a bit of a...pessimist when it comes to things going wrong on a car. For me, it NEVER seems to be the simple thing. (ever).

I am about to go deliver and work on a few printers for work, so I will stop by the Talon and check the fluid level again.

 

[FrankenTSi]

This is the signifigant other of FrankenTSi, a few things he didn't mention

1. The day we notived it was not getting warm, it was in the very low (<20) degree weather in Colorado, and hasn't got above that yet.

2. There are no signs of overheating, engine is not steaming, no foul smell when you get out, etc. Doesn't knock, everything seems to be perfect except that it is cold.

3. if you do sit, the temp will come up, but if you move the car it goes back to cold.

4. I have had the engine running with the hood open, and even after about 10 minutes (I was looking for a power steering leak) it wasn't overly warm.

I hope that helps. I thought of thermostat also, except for the fact that it never gets warm unless you are sitting. But as you guys say, it would be easy enouhg to check it.

 

[BoostedPhoenix]

Thermostat most deffinately. I had that in my eclipse, except mine actually broke and when i took the housing apart i found pieces of the thermostat laying inside. Remember the thermostat is essentially a regulator for the coolant flow through the radiator, no restriction means full flow and dissipating as much heat as the radiator can i.e. idleing = no airflow over the radiator and thus a chance to warm up, whereas driving = full airflow and taking heat away.

 

[90laserRSfwd]

Thanks for replying.

Actually as i said, it got hot ONCE after this problem started up. It was getting hot beforehand. Just one day it decided "It would be a nice day to be a cold SOB"

I assumed since it got hot, it wasn't the heater core being disconnected

I wonder if your heater core or a hose is then blocking coolant from going into the heater core. There is not really any logical reason why your heat wouldn't work other then the couple of reasons that everyone has been discussing. I don't see anything else that would make your heat not work. I'd think my next offering of advice would be for you to do a cooling system flush and see if there is any dirt present in the system. I'm kind of confused about your situation, although I'd rather have no heat then have the car over heating, so I'd say your not as bad off as you may think.... Although your fingers would disagree with me I'm sure !

Sometimes I just want to my car too.....

 

[black91awdturbo]

Its a bad thermostat I will almost place bets on it. Thats exactly what happens when the thermostat is stuck open it will go ice cold almost every time when you start driving.
Here is a good way to tell with the car ice cold have some one start it up and hold tight to the upper rad hose. If you feel coolant run right threw it you know the t-stat is stuck open. If you dont feel that its ###### not your problem.

 

[FrankenTSi]

Thank you all. Looks like Thursday I have my work cut out for me (time to play everyones FAVORITE GAMESHOW: "Find the Thermostat"!!!). I appreciate the warm advice you gave me, and putting up with my questions. Since this is my first DSM (though, secretly, I have ALWAYS wanted a Talon, so this is one of my "dream" cars.) I likely will be asking a few more questions somewhere along the lines (glares at his turn signals, and trying to replace the front ones). But looking around, hopefully I should not have to ask anything else for a while.

this brings back memories of my other Mitsu in my driveway currently (95 Galant with the 2.4L N/A engine...currently only driving on 1st and second gear (no third or reverse) and coincidentally, looks like the same tranny thats in the FrankenTSi). *sheepish grin* one of these days I will get that tranny rebuilt.

 

[turbosax2]

http://vfaq.com/mods/wayback/BradBauer/engine/thermo.html
Thermostat replacement

The process on your car will be similar, but not identical, to those articles.

Here is the Mitsubishi part number, if you want to get a new OEM thermostat.
MD315301 - Thermostat kit

 

[black91awdturbo]

To find the Tstat just follow the upper rad hose all the way back it runs right by the thermostat housing. You should do fine just make sure to put some sealer on the new t-stat gasket!

 

[cturok7]

1. Get a new thermostat
2. Try adding more coolant

If that doesn't work then come back here and inquire some more. One step at a time.

 

[_DeS_]

It definetly sounds like the thermostate. A little 10 min job and you will be all warm.

 

[Calan]

To find the Tstat just follow the upper rad hose all the way back it runs right by the thermostat housing.

Actually, it runs right into it.. not by it.

 

[bvass]

3. if you do sit, the temp will come up, but if you move the car it goes back to cold.

Definitely the thermostat. You can change it along with the coolant in about half an hour. You can drive the car if you have to but keep in mind that when the oil is not up to operating temperature it doesn't lubricate as well so there is more wear on the engine. My advice to you is to fix it asap. It is $15 and 30 minutes of your time.