Is FWD worth modding???

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by blinded
But if you want a dependable daily driver that you can mess around with and make a little extra power, fwd is fine. That's all my gst's used for.

This is what I never really understood. Why everyone uses fwd cars for beaters and the awd car as a race car. Everyone things fwd is super reliable and the awd isn’t. I know living in sunny cali you don’t have to deal with snow but you do have to deal with rain occasionally. I would much rather have an awd car in poor weather. Even when my awd car was making mid 300s on pump gas it was still a snow mobile in the with 4 245 width Kuhmo ZR tires.

 

[sphillips91]

Dont get me wrong, I love dsms. But for me, since im not shooting for monster hp, the less things too break on these sob's the better.

 

[jsigone]

i hate the rain, even with the 14b, rain was not on my side, now with a more torquey 20g.....I'm not looking foward to the rain season, though it only last 2-4 weeks outta the entire year.

 

[91TSi FWD]

Originally posted by rdrkt
You fwd guys have NO concept of fast. If you build a truly fast (450+ hp) fwd DSM you wont be able to hook up in ANY gear and that is just dumb. I also think its pretty safe to say that all of you guys would get plenty of time to read my new custom plate if we raced from a roll.

If you have the money to build a 450+hp DSM, you would most likely have some money to do something about traction loss.

 

[Phoenix_RsX]

Originally posted by 91TSi FWD


If you have the money to build a 450+hp DSM, you would most likely have some money to do something about traction loss.

My point exactl. Can you say Quaife LSD? radials/slicks help too.

 

[NosLaser]

Damn, rdrkt bringing out the trash talk!! Having actually owned a close to 450 wheel HP fwd (423) I will shed some insight on the subject. At the track, without proper suspension/tires (read: unstreetable setup) you ain't hooking for crap. A 300 wheel HP FWD on slicks will ET better than a 450 wheel HP DSM on slicks with the same suspension. I will say, however, that if I were to build a DSM drag car, and had the ability to go all out and RWD wasn't an option, I would build a FWD for the simple reason that AWD becomes quite a limiting factor at super high HP levels (weight transfer, etc.) hence why the fastest AWD vehicle is substantially slower than the fastest FWD vehicle. You can either set the car up to transfer weight to the rear wheels, or to maintain weight on the front wheels. With an AWD layout, you can't dedicate the suspension enough to one set of drive wheels without compromising the other.

Back to the street cars, my Laser, from a 3rd gear roll at 60+ mph would spin the tires pretty hard all the way through third (it wasn't baking them, just hazing them all the way up; still had good forward momentum) and on cold nights, it would haze 4th gear to about 115ish mph. From a standstill, I could burnout straight in any of the forward gears. From a roll, I used to 'purge' the spray in 2nd gear by simply stabbing it in 2nd. It would anihiliate the tires and simply swing the tach to 7 grand instantly. People thought I was free-revving the motor, and had no idea what they were in for. If you are looking for a low 12 second daily driver, then I can't think of a much better combo than an AWD with a small/big 16G, FMIC, 550's/660's, PMS/AFC/DSM Link/etc. and all the other supporting mods. If you want a highway monster, and don't really have any regard for quick ET's and catering to number crunching internet junkies, then a FWD is definately the way to go. You have much less of a concern with breaking driveline parts allowing you to concentrate on making horsepower. You'd be surprised at how quick these cars can be on the highway. They are pretty aerodynamic, they don't weight much in the grand scheme of things, the motors make good horsepower and torque, and it's geared pretty well to boot. Anyway, just my $.02.

Regards,

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by Phoenix_RsX
My point exactl. Can you say Quaife LSD? radials/slicks help too.

I can and yes they will HELP but you will still be spinning through all of 3rd gear.

 

[NosLaser]

A quaife diff is a great idea and all, but even that cannot overcome the phenomenon of...ummm...it's on the tip of my tongue...oh, weight transfer!!

Regards,

 

[Libila]

If you like to road race FWD is pretty good actually. I mean AWD gets great traction but if you break the back end loose then it wants to swing around on you just like a RWD car. With front wheel you stick pretty good at speed. Just wanted to add this- AWD can be more of a pain then a blessing. Lets face it, our cars have problems with the drivetrain and I know they can be fixed but think of it this way, with the more moving parts you have the more shit is going to break.

 

[blinded]

Originally posted by rdrkt
My friend and fellow wisemas HighPsi91 likes to say that out of every $1.00 spent to modify a FWD about 45cents is wasted. I always thought that was pretty funny.

2 gems in one day. Thanks dude.

This is what I never really understood. Why everyone uses fwd cars for beaters and the awd car as a race car. Everyone things fwd is super reliable and the awd isn’t. I know living in sunny cali you don’t have to deal with snow but you do have to deal with rain occasionally. I would much rather have an awd car in poor weather.

FWD's are cheaper and easier to find. Since I don't have an awd, I guess I really shouldn't make any statements about reliability. However, I gotta believe that awd launches, even for a car that is a daily driven beater, toasts clutches and trannies a heck of a lot easier than fwd. For example, I just lost my first clutch a couple of days ago after almost 109K of beating the crap out of it.

You're right about the snow, but it hardly ever rains here. Local news pulls out there "Stormwatch" teams when the fog starts to turn into drizzle. I'm not sure what San Marcos is talking about. This year we had ZERO measureable rain in Southern California in the month of January. Oh yeah, we also had the HIGHEST rain total in history down here this year. So weather isn't exactly a consideration for me.

But, as a side note, I have been in the snow once with my car, and I am confident enough in that experience to say that I don't think that fwd is bad at all in the snow. I spent 4 hours driving up along 395 to get to Tahoe in the middle of a blizzard and in the middle of the night with no chains. For those that don't know, 395 is a winding 2 lane mountain road that follows the eastern slope of the Sierras. Very fun on a summer day. Not so good on a winter night. This is the back way into Tahoe, and I took it because the well-travelled entrances were forcing people to use chains. Although I definitely was tense and I definitely drove slower than normal, I was still catching and passing cars that were better-suited for the weather. The car tracked perfectly, and I never once got out of shape.

Lo and behold, the "Is FWD worth modding" thread has turned into another fwd v. awd thread.

 

[Sinister]

Well with the weight transfer issue, I tried a little expirement. I Put eibach pro kit springs on my back and sportlines on front. My launch is pretty decent with good tires....... when I getmy my clutch, LSD, and prothane motor mounts. Good god it will be a FWD to be recon'd with!!!!!

 

[Blitz]

Originally posted by rdrkt

What you aren’t making 450hp on pump gas?

You can get a 300hp fwd car to hook up just fine and hey that might be fast enough for you. But my goals go way beyond running door to door with a stock c5. If you have extreme goals I dont see how you can accomplish them with a fwd car. If I spin 3rd in an awd car I can only imagine what a fwd car would do.

You are making 450hp on pump gas? Can you post your dyno sheet?

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by Blitz
You are making 450hp on pump gas? Can you post your dyno sheet?

I will post it soon god willing. Right now its just an educated guess. If the car will stay together long enough I will get it to BM and get results.

 

[turboslug]

One thing most people, and I see it here, is the fact that awd drive will corner alot better. The handling on awd is far better. I also agree though that fwd is really fun on the freeway, blowing by a piece of crap push-rod z28 gives you that deep stomach feeling, and you love it.

 

[Phoenix_RsX]

Originally posted by rdrkt

I can and yes they will HELP but you will still be spinning through all of 3rd gear.

yes this is very true......but you know like I know that FWD on the track really can't be too formidable of an opponent without one. I'm really hoping to have mine by october.

 

[Phoenix_RsX]

Originally posted by turboslug
One thing most people, and I see it here, is the fact that awd drive will corner alot better. The handling on awd is far better. I also agree though that fwd is really fun on the freeway, blowing by a piece of crap push-rod z28 gives you that deep stomach feeling, and you love it.

I for one will admit that I do love coasting ar 4/5....then dropping her into 3rd.......

 

[turboslug]

I just bought my dsm about a month ago. Awd really appealed to me because of our snowy weather here. I know with the driveway I have fwd wouldn't work. Also my roommate ownes a 88 celica alltrac, so both of us havin awd cars is a novelty.

Dirt roads are fun too, if you don't mind beating up your car a little.

 

[azteck2]

to get back to the subject at hand... i have a pretty heavily modded fwd, and alot of my friends have awd's... we all seem to have the same amount of fun dusting anything else on the road! If it's a DSM...no-matter FWD or AWD...crank up the boost and have fun.

 

[azteck2]

oh, and rdrkt...don't forget you had a FWD and you were'nt always so wise

 

[pneumo]

Just keep in mind that once you get to the level where you're spinning the tires in second gear adding more power will not benefit you for driving below 50 mph, and for me that was the majority of my driving. I didn't see the point of adding power that I could only use above 50 mph.
I had the Quaife, drag radials, motor mounts, suspension setup, and it detracted from the cars ability to handle daily driving comfortably. So with FWD I had to choose between getting it to hook up and being able to live with it on a daily basis. Now with m AWD I don't have to choose; it's smooth and comfortable and rarely breaks traction. Any extra power I add will be useful in every gear. The only drawback is the extra 250 pounds of weight. But after driving FWD and AWD back to back for 6 months I'm selling the FWD.
But that's just me.
YMMV.

 

[91TSi FWD]

, if you moded a FWD to 400+hp you would almost need an LSD. If not you might hit the wall from torque steer in the 1/4 mile:laugh:

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by azteck2
oh, and rdrkt...don't forget you had a FWD and you were'nt always so wise

Yeah but then I wised up. Remember FWD= Wrong Wheel Drive

 

[abrxy3]

if fwd isnt worth modding b/c of traction problems, are you saying all domestics arent worth modding because their huge v8s make em break loose in every gear also? fwd gets more traction than rwd. its easy to choose: track get awd, highway get fwd

 

[Turbo Monk3y]

God most of you people here are pathetic... Comon now Ive owned both AWD and FWD DSM's and ill tell you one thing from experience. YOU CAN MAKE ANYTHING AS FAST AS ANYTHING you want WITH MONEY. look at it this way, FOR example, IF modding an AWD to 500hp takes 1$ dollar and runs a 10 second 1/4 His money goes toward driveline parts, clutches, and performance mods, now if you want a FWD car to be around 500 HP then you would actually spend less BUT, you would have to spend just a tad more on Suspension,slicks,Lsd, then performance mods, so it would come out to around $2 dollars. both cars run the same quarter mile so what the hell does it matter??!! so one guy spent a little more who cares... i mean that RDKT guy or watever the hell his name was is trying to make it seem like his car is GOD which in reallity i can make a VW rabbit run 10 second quarters all day long with money.. JUST THINK of RICH people if they will buy a Ferrari MODENA then if they are a car enthusiast will put some more money down onto it and smoke all you little bitches that proclaim your car is soooo Badass when its not Yeah now all the cars "you say" you beat may give you a good feeling but you will always be beatin by something else be it a fancy 911 twin turbo porche or a shitty toyota celica that can run 9s... so to all you people arguing about if FWD are moddable ... YES THEY ARE AND THEY ARE MODDABLE TILL YOU RUN OUTTA CASH. as for you little whores that think their 11 second AWD dsm is sooooo cool you can kiss my Ass YOU ARE NOTHING SPECIAL.....

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by abrxy3
fwd gets more traction than rwd.

Drop the crack pipe step away from the computer. A high power domestic rwd car ie Mustang would have traction issues on the street BUT you aren’t fighting physics to get traction. At the track weight transfer would be your friend.